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Date:      Sun, 20 Oct 1996 20:57:16 -0400 (EDT)
From:      Chuck Robey <chuckr@glue.umd.edu>
To:        Mikael Karpberg <karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se>
Cc:        current@FreeBSD.org
Subject:   Re: ISDN code removal, final warning.
Message-ID:  <Pine.OSF.3.95.961020205108.11473A-100000@thurston.eng.umd.edu>
In-Reply-To: <199610210016.CAA11690@ocean.campus.luth.se>

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On Mon, 21 Oct 1996, Mikael Karpberg wrote:

[CC: list trimmed out]

> According to Julian Elischer:
> > > As an ISDN user I have the same reservations as Poul-Henning, I'm
> > > not sure ISDN belongs in the kernel...
> > > 
> > Oh I think it does, and I expect to be asked to start working on it
> > soonish.
> 
> How about this?
> It doesn't belong there. Neither does IP, or most drivers. IMHO.
> It seems to me Linux is going the right way, trying to split up their
> kernel, making it more modular, having it load stuff like drivers as it is
> needed. Or am I missinformed? (Could very well be the case here...)

FreeBSD has LKMs.

> 
> Streams should be wonderful, no? So you could just plug a new protocol in,
> and run it over any connection, and plug a new communication hardware in,
> and write a driver to just handle that, without worring about protocol.
> Plug it in and run any protocol supported allready.

Way I understand it, streams is a performance dog, especially when used
for network stuff, with very high throughput.  Why take a system that is a
known high performer and start recoding it to look like a known
underperformer?  Streams makes all the characters go from level to level
to level, which might be ok for tty processing perhaps, but not past
there.

> 
> I have no idea what kind of efforts are going on to get streams in,
> or make the kernel dynamically load device drivers, or such...
> 
> Is there an effort? Is it something that FreeBSD as a community wants?
> Should be... easier for people to contribute if they just have to figure
> out how to make a connection from hardware to an API, rather then
> having to know half the kernel, and go messing about in it to get things
> to work. I don't know how much of which case we have today, I'm affraid.
> 
> A friend and I pondered writing an NDIS 3.1 API, in form of a network
> driver, which would load drivers from /drv/ndis/ or something.
> That way, we could get INSTANT support for the cutting edge network
> hardware that comes out, since it WILL come with an NDIS driver to
> support win95. Just "mcopy a:thefile.drv /drv/ndis/" (possibly with a
> command like "newndis thefile.drv" to initialize it's use) and reboot
> the system, and you can try the thing while it's still so hot out of
> the development, you'll burn yourself touching it. And to be able to do
> it in your favourite OS, instead of win95! :) In adition to that, there
> are, we found, quite a few fun things out there... Like a ppp-driver
> which uses ndis, from Micro$oft. I don't know how it worked really, but
> possibly you could just plug it in like any network ndis driver, and
> use it like it was any network card. I found it interesting. Also
> making NDIS support a network driver would allow you to compile with
> or without it as you pleased. If it's possible. Then your card would just
> show up as ndis0, ndis1, etc, regardless of it's a ppp driver for modem,
> or an ethernet card, or whatever. Hmm...
> 
> We haven't seriously researched this, so I could be completely wrong.
> I just thought I'd share some ideas, see if anyone was working on any
> of them, and/or found inspiration in them. Maybe someone just have
> a comment that could be useful, if not for me, then maybe for someone
> else.

I like the idea of increasing performance, but I don't like the idea of
mimicing the competition.  FreeBSD is great in it's own right, but if it
became just another Windows, would *you* be interested in it?

> 
> So... comments? :)  *duck*
> 
>    /Mikael
> 
> 
> 
> 

----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------
Chuck Robey                 | Interests include any kind of voice or data 
chuckr@eng.umd.edu          | communications topic, C programming, and Unix.
9120 Edmonston Ct #302      |
Greenbelt, MD 20770         | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD
(301) 220-2114              | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN!
----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------




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