From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 6 21:56:42 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 965511065680 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 2009 21:56:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from anti_spam256@yahoo.ca) Received: from web65511.mail.ac4.yahoo.com (web65511.mail.ac4.yahoo.com [76.13.9.55]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 511818FC27 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 2009 21:56:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 93705 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Aug 2009 21:56:41 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.ca; s=s1024; t=1249595801; bh=wJLsio6uNQcdEFfYKpble54M4Afeu2zIUM3xqF0TASw=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=v0amKrGlMfu+kSauEVrjAgxkgVRijDBRW76shrX5pvhWiumjeFyCmNJdAiihFdFNGASoTEgQYZYiidoPsedXjk5zR8uUGttyfM2yQQs9RwpKaQgxvgF/T0PmtRe2NRtC1K5N8ydr3PVGGbcjoKyAs0GgT3eYp+JO5MmnRg/YfUM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=NEQgBh3eVylqUVVrrMNcydVdJDmcpUYKW+n03ji5iI8U1R+yxNGWhNeXFXfOUuEKH4q/msf/sMXC93XaezbvXkkylpfgbtCUqHCehlaDTwFg6VBproTAkibd108rTji1Ma9CYn5VOCww9O/DtQTmx3v8K66WYVd+8p7DdBlv7AY=; Message-ID: <182370.92452.qm@web65511.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: fw0XoaEVM1nWJjA8lXRQ48llGv08CP0J9aoj_kviBMqsr64TpKfVwYa9iD3EFSFo3uUeuOu7zzV.EbWuVkTVtFVtuWRl5V0WjhN9p6QXAIPpegMaboJUbp.sPvwREuCsGwOfeYTXOh5JHUVb8lgte_zBVADFOB8rKf5wUDjrH_FQ2ukgg.gDoYQ_gqJr1.u7Uyp.bcuG9jE9KsYrOpqKt.sHpPiU3Lx.bBsn2j29oHYp8kDxlXAcoGw2d1TKYfEgo5YOGiXP2JeyV0xhblRdh2hIbuTfPop6nXhOVZ9UaS8PQvrUF0AflRY51pDFQ1pwnpmXPKyK1R5V5SacI_sG4AVEt6eXrY01UGfJZ9uDjg-- Received: from [208.99.137.71] by web65511.mail.ac4.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 06 Aug 2009 14:56:41 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.1.2 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:56:41 -0700 (PDT) From: James Phillips To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20090806120011.8528A106567E@hub.freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: FreeBSD for the common man(or woman) (was: > upgrade 7.2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 21:56:43 -0000 =0A=0A--- On Thu, 8/6/09, freebsd-questions-request@freebsd.org wrote:=0A=0A=0A> =0A> Message: 16=0A> Date: Th= u, 6 Aug 2009 06:41:12 -0500=0A> From: Neal Hogan =0A>= Subject: Re: FreeBSD for the common man(or woman) (was:=0A> upgrade 7.2=0A= > =A0=A0=A0 overwrites partitions)=0A> To: Mark Stapper = =0A> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org=0A> Message-ID:=0A> =A0=A0=A0 =0A> Content-Type: tex= t/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1=0A> =0A> =0A> I must say that I find this (ne= w) thread a bit funny since=0A> it was=0A> inspired by a guy (the OP) who h= as been using fBSD for many=0A> years=0A> (over 5 . . . I can't remember th= e exact number).=0A> =0A=0AI have been struggling to use FreeBSD for a shor= ter amount of time (for a fileserver). I was originally attracted to OpenBS= D "for security." However, OpenBSD users are expected to compile all patche= s from source. Since I wasn't planning on doing code-reviews myself, I saw = little benefit in using extra disk space and compile time when binaries wou= ld do.=0A=0AI was also attracted to BSD because I knew from my brief stint = at university that the BSD man-pages were actually kept up to date. Not lik= e the GNU system where man pages say stupid things like:=0A"The full docume= ntation for dd is maintained as a Texinfo manual. If the info and dd p= rograms are properly installed at your site, the command:=0A=0A = info dd=0A=0A should give you access to the complete manual.=0A= =0Add (coreutils) 5.97 January 2007 DD(1)"=0A=0AI actually saw = text once (years ago) that basicly said:=0A"If we receive complaints about = the quality of the man pages, they will be removed"=0AI have tried to use i= nfo. I don't have time to go through the info tutorial every time I want to= use a new command (think emacs-like hyperlinking/scripting, vi-like keybin= dings)=0A=0AAnyway, Initially, I wanted to set up a "File and everything el= se" server. I don't know exactly when I installed FreeBSD 5.x, but I copied= my files of over to it March 14, 2006. I know this because I lost data: th= e file creation times.=0A=0AFollowing the FreeBSD Handbook, I got stuck on = trying to get the printer to work. The handbook was basicly instructing me = to write my own print driver! I checked the HP website: they will release t= he details of the PCL language (version 4 or so) for a price. I finally got= it working by installing the Apsfiler package in the ports collection (no,= did not send the post-card yet; the print server is not functional yet.)= =0A=0AAfter basicly using the server for my own use via ssh and FTP for a w= hile, I decided to try to get samba and NFS working. This time, I narrowed = the scope: Fileserving (SAMBA, NFS), Printing, and working backups. Novembe= r 18, 2007, I started my FreeBSD 6.2 installation. This time I kept notes d= etailing what I had to do to configure each portion of the system. Looking = up commands I may need if things go wrong ahead of time.=0A=0AInitially, I = was struggling with a chicken&egg problem with back ups: I wanted to borrow= a client computer's DVD drive. However, I wanted to backup the client comp= uters to the server. It was resolved by putting a DVD burner in the server.= I also made made few tweaks of the system to better follow the Filesystem = Hierarchy Standard (such as symlinking /usr/local/etc to /etc/opt).=0A=0AI = set up samba in read-only mode with little trouble. I'm not sure if I can e= ver get read/write + user-level security working with win98. That machine i= s slowly degrading while I try to get the fileserver working the way I want= . The last time I did a complete re-install (of win98) I lost data due to a= damaged disk that I copied the data to (and learned that bzip2recover is a= quick hack that needs to be re-written properly according to the source co= de). I hope to replace windows with wine for the most part, but wine simply= installs the applications in the users' home directory (breaking the FHS).= This is only resolvable IMHO by having wine use a real database back-end f= or the registry (allowing user-level "views" of the data, while still isola= ting different users).=0A=0ASetting up NFS was a lesson in the intecracies = of NIS twice since my Linux clients do things a little differently. After a= sking on one of the IRC channels that we are not advised to use; I edited t= he /var/yp/Makefile to suppress groups outside the range of (1001 -2000). T= hat basicly prevents the "special" groups from being exported to the Linux = clients (that use different numbering) To do this, I DID need the gory low-= level details in the handbook. I didn't note the exact date, but I really d= idn't touch the server for months after that. I copied my work to the Linux= client because the hard-disk was failing, and I still did not get DVD-burn= ing working.=0A=0AAt one point when doing a Google search for "fxp" I came = across this message:=0Ahttp://unix.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/FreeBSD/curr= ent/2008-10/msg00340.html=0ACall for testers: fxp(4) WOL <- My card!=0AAt = that point, I decided to install the FreeBSD testing release (7.x). I had b= een felling guilt about leaving a barely-used computer running 24/7. Especi= ally since I wasn't going to trust it with my work aging until I do a succe= ssful backup/restore.=0A=0AI finally installed FreeBSD 7.2 (release) on May= 9, 2009. However, I now note some feature creep:=0AIn addition to file/pri= nt and backup server, I want to:=0A1. Have it sleep when not in use (part o= f the delay was figuring out how to get the router to send the magic packet= . I read RFC's to determine the proper way, and found a "hack" that will wo= rk on my floppy-based router for my network set-up (send it every DHCP leas= e). =0AProper way:=0Ahttp://www.freesco.org/support-forum/viewtopic.php?f= =3D15&t=3D17194=0A(proposal only; rejected due to space constraints)=0A2. I= think I want to move the Voice/Fax/Modem to the machine. Recently I realis= ed a lack of WakeOnRing may impair phone answering if machine is sleeping.= =0A3. I still hope to do "other things" once the machine is working reliabl= y.=0A=0A=0ASo, this long story boils down to the following question:=0A=0AW= hat is that best way to use the handbook and related documentation (like ma= n-pages)?=0A=0AI am willing to do some reading, but get distracted by irrel= evant or sometimes too low-level stuff. I want to avoid programing as much = as possible until I actually have a work-station I am comfortable playing a= round with. Thinking about it in the week before posting this, I think that= part of my problem is I want to use the documentation to do the "right thi= ng" rather than experiment. Once I move the family's files onto the server,= it becomes essential. I won't be able to have it out of commission for wee= ks at a time. I hope with the server properly set up, win98 may even be usa= ble again: just do a clean install every morning! I even downloaded the Win= dows 7 RC so that I can be informed when I say it sucks.=0A=0A=0ARegards,= =0A=0AJames Phillips=0A=0APS: I find it a little annoying that FreeBSD rele= ases faster than I can configure my computer! ;)=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ______= ____________________________________________________________=0ALooking for = the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! =0A=0Ahttp://www.flickr.com/gift= /