From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 28 17:18:34 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 851D31065673 for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:18:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (unknown [IPv6:2a01:170:102f::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8B848FC1A for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:18:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m7SHITcW067493; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:18:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m7SHISGL067492; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:18:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olli) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:18:28 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200808281718.m7SHISGL067492@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, alexanderchuranov@gmail.com, xcllnt@mac.com, admin@stuff.is In-Reply-To: <3cb459ed0808250952j572dfc35j2feb852a73de5ace@mail.gmail.com> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-current User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.3-STABLE (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:18:32 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Subject: Re: Unicode-based FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, alexanderchuranov@gmail.com, xcllnt@mac.com, admin@stuff.is List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:18:34 -0000 Alexander Churanov wrote: > Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > > Alexander Churanov wrote: > > > I'm just trying to be realistic and provide doable solution. I leave plans > > > of rewriting every bit of software to others. And I even think that latter > > > is not required, since syscons console is probably not heavily used now. > > > > This is not true. FreeBSD is used in far more environments > > than the typical desktop environment running X11. It is > > therefore important to realize that you cannot claim that > > there's always X11 to fall back upon when it comes to i18n > > or that those cases are not significant or important enough > > to consider. > > I do not know thestatistics, but as for me I'm either using FreeBSD as a > desktop, or as a server (firewall, gateway, router, database - do not > matter). On a desktop machine I have X and server is typically managed via > ssh. This leaves only installation and single-user modes for syscons > console. Other uses are rare for me. > > And how do you use syscons? I have to manage a large number of FreeBSD servers via remote KVM (i.e. KVM-over-IP). That means I have to use syscons via the KVM application inside a browser window. So, whatever, you do, please do not break syscons. ;-) Some personal notes: I'm a German speaker, so my language uses certain non-ASCII characters (Umlauts and others). I have no problem using them with syscons; I use only 8bit (ISO8859-1 and -15). However, I try to avoid non-ASCII in filenames, especially on portable media, because you never know if every system is able to handle them correctly. Just to name an example, there was the case where a friend of mine brought a CD with photos to a shop in order to get them printed. The photo printer terminal (a PC with some custom software) refused to do its job because it choked on some of the file names that contained umlaut characters. Of course I'm aware of the fact that 8bit is not sufficient for some languages, especially Asian ones. Therefore it is certainly desirable to implement UTF-* support for the console (be it syscons or something new). Right now, a Chinese sysadmin cannot simply go to a FreeBSD console, run mutt and read mails from his co-workers that contain Chinese characters. This *does* work fine with Linux. This is clearly an area where FreeBSD is lacking. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "I invented Ctrl-Alt-Delete, but Bill Gates made it famous." -- David Bradley, original IBM PC design team