From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 17 08:24:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33925106566B for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 08:24:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from royce.williams@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF7538FC13 for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 08:24:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iagz16 with SMTP id z16so7437995iag.13 for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 00:24:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dGaNo9WXe0fhN7+1rplJGiE9elGNJnt8EGbjocYS2vA=; b=r+VhOX5DyQHbx8CLuFmcFkMgE0ztSEr3J/wTUZD8ocPm+mtXCJOsOtncjSWdzUeACN UTsHR/otbLz6ZEogiASFVtusm8NxovTeOLDBrDq86yQG2x6KpoRrcnX7XJpy0OUGy+9Y yVeBYuPsodoVkLuPH9g5CApuzgjPfXVtVtR64= Received: by 10.50.188.166 with SMTP id gb6mr16455088igc.18.1326786775273; Mon, 16 Jan 2012 23:52:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.122.169 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Jan 2012 23:52:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Royce Williams Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 22:52:34 -0900 Message-ID: To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 08:24:19 -0000 John's trying to manage risk. =A0Switching from RELEASE to CURRENT adds a lot of risk and churn, when most folks in this class of use case just need a few very specific drivers and bugfixes (what some OSes call "hotfixes".) John sounds willing to trade a little bit of local risk (and testing time) in exchange for a way to self-serve a hotfix without abandoning RELEASE. =A0How can we enable that? There are simple cases -- the ones that just need a few files and a kernel module -- that seem within easy reach. =A0For example, the eRacks guys generated these handy binaries for mps(4) for 7.4, 8.0, 8.1 and 8.2: http://blog.eracks.com/2011/08/lsi-logic-6gbps-mps-driver-for-freebsd-8-2-r= elease/ For me, this was perfect: I got to have my cake (tracking 8.1-RELEASE, and using freebsd-update) and eat it too (support for specific newer hardware). =A0If security updates break my mps(4), I'm on my own -- but it's still a much better balance of risk for me than switching to CURRENT. I know that some fixes are harder than just adding a kernel module. =A0I know that the standards for releasing errata are high, and they should be. =A0But I wish there was a way to optionally lower that threshold and say: "Yes, I know this might eat my data. =A0Let me judge and test that for myself without otherwise abandoning RELEASE." =A0If there was a way to mark hotfixes as "worked for me" (to let the better ones bubble up to the top), we non-coders could even help manage the list. I can't do it myself, but I would happily help brainstorm, test =A0-- and commit $100 or more, Kickstarter-style, to fund someone else's work. Royce