Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:37:29 -0600 (CST) From: Jamie <jamie@gnulife.org> To: Martin Hudec <corwin@aeternal.net> Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD-newbies group is a compromise community. Message-ID: <20040319192953.Q535@floyd.gnulife.org> In-Reply-To: <20040319180535.P379@floyd.gnulife.org> References: <1079648282.405a201a64217@savaka.com> <20040319030343.GA21807@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20040319180535.P379@floyd.gnulife.org>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
Just one more thing I'd like to add is that I acknowledge I deserve
any grief I received for posting to the wrong list in the first place, and
that my comment in my second paragraph:
> I also noticed that most of the responses to my misdirected post were
> not malicious, and those that were malicious were probably the product
> an accumulation of frustrations with people who have posted to the wrong
> list in the past rather than a representation of their normal character.
shouldn't subtract from the idea that I deserved any snide remarks made
by anyone, because I know I should have read the charter. I apologize for
upsetting your place here at freebsd-newbies.
- Jamie
On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Jamie wrote:
>
>
> I agree with your observations. I have noticed that the users on
> freebsd-questions are much more mature than the folks I've seen posting on
> a linux mailing list I am subscribed to. That is one of the things I
> really enjoy about the FreeBSD community and one of the primary reasons
> why I decided to make FreeBSD my new focus. Besides that, I am using
> FreeBSD at work now, which is a good thing.
>
> I also noticed that most of the responses to my misdirected post were
> not malicious, and those that were malicious were probably the product of
> an accumulation of frustrations with people who have posted to the wrong
> list in the past rather than a representation of their normal character.
>
>
> - Jamie
>
>
> On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Martin Hudec wrote:
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Good morning,
> >
> > Jamie, that is absolutely wrong to say that you didn't want to bother the
> > gurus and wizs. Everyone of those people, which you prefer to call gurus and
> > wizs, one time in a galaxy far far away were newbies like you, they
stumbled
> > upon the same problems like you do nowadays as newbie. I would not prefer to
> > use such terms to highlight someone's knowledge. My experience from general
> > linux mailing lists is that members usually do sort themselves in some kind
> > of classes (user, power user, guru - use any terms you like). And this cause
> > that someone who is calling himself a newbie might get ignored by someone who
> > is calling himself as guru, just for this simple reason that he is guru and
> > that is too demeaning for him to answer this (from his point of view) simple
> > and easy question. The -question mailing list is just for asking tech support
> > questions no matter how simple or how complicated they seem to be. On
> > - -questions there are many people willing to help. And it looks like that
> > FreeBSD users are more grown up than linux users (my subjective opinion -
> > many of the linux so called gurus are still living in the opinion that they
> > are the best, they know everything because they don't use that redmond
> > operating system, so they see themselves as some kind of ueber-men..), so
> > they will answer, or at least try to shown the direction how to solve this or
> > that. If you ask for tech support here on -newbies list of course you might
> > get the right answer, but risk of getting less accurate answer here is more
> > higher than in -questions list.
> > You are saying that plenty of folks on -questions are getting flamed.. well I
> > have not seen this for quite time now (maybe I am not paying lot of attention
> > to list), but it is always nice to see that person asking for help did at
> > least some research on his own (reading log files, trying google.. "in google
> > non est, ergo non est"). Sometimes I see questions like "my proftpd server
> > stopped to work, please help" and those are the questions when I feel like I
> > need a crystall ball to find out what happened to the proftpd. Please don't
> > get me wrong. I always try to help, no matter how stupid or easy question
> > seems to be. I was new to world of FreeBSD once too (and I am still - maybe I
> > am good in ipfw traffic shaping, maybe I lack any experience at all in bind9
> > matters etc.), and I needed (and sometimes I need) the same kind of help you
> > asking for now. What I hate is the guru-like approach like "rtfm! man
> > make.conf". That is too childish. Remember that the most stupid questions are
> > those which we are never about to ask. Enjoy and explore that nice world of
> > FreeBSD and its possibilities.
> >
> > cheers,
> > Martin
> >
> > On Fri March 19 2004 05:43, Jamie wrote:
> > > Sorry, I should have read the charter. I didn't want to bother the
> > > gurus and wizards with what I thought might be a question which would come
> > > from someone inexperienced, and title "newbies" *sounded* like a good
> > > place to ask it. I was just judging it by the name of the group, and not
> > > by the charter, so thats how I made my mistake. To me, newbies sounds like
> > > a haven for those whose asbestos underwear are away at the laundromat. Had
> > > I read the charter, I wouldn't have posted in newbies.
> > >
> > > I see plenty of folks in freebsd-questions getting flamed for not reading
> > > the manual, when I think in fact many of them are so inexperienced
> > > that they aren't aware of just where the manual they need is yet, or
> > > whether the additional manual they need even exists. A lot of questions
> > > are probably even ignored because people read the questions and think to
> > > themselves "I won't answer this - the guy hasn't read the manual, or he
> > > doesn't have a clue what is going on". Sometimes the person with the
> > > question may have read the manual but misunderstood it, or could not
> > > locate the relevant docs.
> > >
> >
> >
> > - --
> > :
> > :. kind regards
> > :.. Martin Hudec
> > :.:
> > :.: =w= http://www.aeternal.net
> > :.: =m= +421.907.303393
> > :.: =@= corwin@aeternal.net
> > :.:
> > :.: "When you want something, all the universe
> > :.: conspires in helping you to achieve it."
> > :.: - The Alchemist (Paulo Coelho)
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD)
> >
> > iD8DBQFAWp0gZYEZIv+rgggRAp6pAJ9ZhEyWSgFIVXkSztIF5+gW3AS2ywCggP2b
> > 5+vF5SlCV0EUVOzbgu03U5k=
> > =0gKn
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > _______________________________________________
> > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list
> > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies
> > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
> >
>
>
> Greetings from Minneapolis, MN, United States
>
> "A friend is someone who lets you have total freedom to be yourself."
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
>
Greetings from Minneapolis, MN, United States
"A friend is someone who lets you have total freedom to be yourself."
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?20040319192953.Q535>