From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 09:00:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA28163 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:00:01 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA28149 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 08:59:56 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id KAA24827; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:04:06 -0600 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:04:06 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504291604.KAA24827@trout.sri.MT.net> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp), nate@trout.sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-Reply-To: <13753.799154952@time.cdrom.com> References: <199504290700.AAA08761@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> <13753.799154952@time.cdrom.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Then I counter with the opposite argument, I can't see what did not > > get found after boot if you remove the not found messages. Right > > now I can use dmesg or look in /var/log/messages and see it, but if > > you remove those I would have no way to find out what I told it > > to probe for but it did not find :-(. > > Now we're getting silly. If your system works fine then you don't > care. Correct, you don't care. If it's a zillion lines long the average user doesn't care. > I don't need to grep through dmesg output to find that my primary SCSI > controller has not been found - that's generally pretty obvious to me > after a a minute or so! :-) Yes, but it not obvious why. And userconfig is completely undocumented. > By contrast, the devices it typically doesn't find (the blend0 blender > driver and the god0 weather control device) are devices that I don't > have, will never have and further more could care absolutely less > about not having. Actually, this in untrue. IMHO, the devices that aren't found are the ones which are the most interesting to the user. Having *extremely* verbose default boot messages is a bane to them, but having very short and sweet one-liners explaining where things were configuref is still a good thing. > Everyone here is talking like hackers - we want to know what's in the > engine and how hot it's running at all times. Yep, because we as the 'hackers' are generally the folks answering the questions from the users. > The majority of drivers > don't care one whit and just want to drive it down the freeway without > a christmas tree of lights blinking on the dashboard telling them > everything from the ambient outside temperature to the rotational > speed of each tire. Ever seen some of the newer cars startup? All the lights blinks on and off at startup to let you know it all works. Bad analogy. :-) Nate