From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 2 23:32:27 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C10361065736 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 23:32:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrew@areilly.bpa.nu) Received: from nschwmtas02p.mx.bigpond.com (nschwmtas02p.mx.bigpond.com [61.9.189.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C9588FC1A for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 23:32:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrew@areilly.bpa.nu) Received: from nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com ([124.188.162.219]) by nschwmtas02p.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20090302233225.IRZI22514.nschwmtas02p.mx.bigpond.com@nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com> for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 23:32:25 +0000 Received: from areilly.bpa.nu ([124.188.162.219]) by nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20090302233220.NYYC7357.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@areilly.bpa.nu> for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 23:32:20 +0000 Received: (qmail 56281 invoked by uid 501); 2 Mar 2009 23:32:15 -0000 Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 10:32:15 +1100 From: Andrew Reilly To: "M. Warner Losh" Message-ID: <20090302233215.GA53763@duncan.reilly.home> References: <2E9BD549-EF77-4F48-AB7E-C93AFC4BE387@gmail.com> <49ABCECE.1040102@gmail.com> <2fd864e0903020512i22b2c31fg487aaf37fed6398b@mail.gmail.com> <20090302.132522.-432836388.imp@bsdimp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20090302.132522.-432836388.imp@bsdimp.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-RPD-ScanID: Class unknown; VirusThreatLevel unknown, RefID str=0001.0A150201.49AC6C85.0045,ss=1,fgs=0 Cc: usb@freebsd.org, yanefbsd@gmail.com, mmakonnen@gmail.com, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, astrodog@gmail.com Subject: Re: The rc.d mess strikes back X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 23:32:28 -0000 On Mon, Mar 02, 2009 at 01:25:22PM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <2fd864e0903020512i22b2c31fg487aaf37fed6398b@mail.gmail.com> > Astrodog writes: > : As unfortunate (and annoying) as that delay was, your system was in a > : "defined" state, at the end of rc.d. As things stand now, that doesn't > : appear to be the case anymore, and I think that may be a more > : significant issue than the delay. > > I'd be happy with synchronous dhcp. The more general problem is the (large) number of network applications that assume that network addresses and routes never change (because that's how things were when they were written.) My personal pet peeve is ntpd, but there are many others. Any daemon that caches host IP address information at startup is (IMO) broken, and needs to be fixed. There are many reasons why network addresses may change *after* startup, and it is not reasonable to go around and manually HUP everything when that happens. Needing synchronous DHCP as a work-around here is just the signifier of the problem: it isn't the over-all solution. Cheers, -- Andrew