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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID c4b0b073a72e3a2536b07ce00f64a2b8; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 00:53:42 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\)) Subject: Re: pkg upgrade, vm.pageout_oom_seq: swap off: UFS, ZFS From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: <2f455675-609b-40b5-9dab-5f006156bac6@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2025 17:53:31 -0700 Cc: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <36F5A8E1-7F72-48C0-A8D7-428E91488B70@yahoo.com> References: <0dbf8c95-7697-4887-a890-335c3ccd80f1@gmail.com> <29ff7f7e-12ef-4d10-8ca4-15ae35ce6bae@gmail.com> <19251E67-BC92-4D71-9E71-6C7546A46D8C@yahoo.com> <9300201D-9D53-449B-9F0A-DFF6194B2830@yahoo.com> <6d1606ac-8ad0-4f15-96c7-30c6f50ca9b9@gmail.com> <73877048-A3B4-4920-AC92-A8C7A4FF83B5@yahoo.com> <2f455675-609b-40b5-9dab-5f006156bac6@gmail.com> To: Graham Perrin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81) X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cHLZg68zLz46p4 On Sep 3, 2025, at 17:14, Graham Perrin wrote: > On 02/09/2025 19:19, Mark Millard wrote: >=20 >> On Aug 31, 2025, at 12:01, Graham Perrin = wrote: >>=20 >>> =E2=80=A6 >> The notes here are about the following sequence of 4 commands: >>=20 >>> pkg install -Fy firefox gitup htop hw-probe kde lsblk lynx nano = pciutils plasma6-sddm-kcm roxterm sddm stressdisk uclcmd usbutils = virtualbox-ose-additions xfce xorg >>> pkg install -Uy firefox gitup htop hw-probe kde lsblk lynx nano = pciutils plasma6-sddm-kcm roxterm sddm stressdisk uclcmd usbutils = virtualbox-ose-additions xfce xorg >>> pkg upgrade -fFqy >>> pkg upgrade -fUy >> In a 14.3-Stable amd64 UFS context the above command sequence: >>=20 >> 1) Will probably OOM on a system with 1 GiByte of RAM but no swap = space, >> even for the first install command. >>=20 >> 2) The sequence of 4 commands used (RAM+SWAP): >> 1024 MiBytes + 2312 MiBytes (observed maximum) >> (So between 3 and 4 GiBytes of RAM+SWAP overall.) >>=20 >> 3) So will OOM on a system with 2 GiByte of RAM but no swap space, >> overall. >>=20 >> =E2=80=A6 First I'll note: ports-mgmt/pkg-devel now has a commit that includes: "add: backout support for provides/requires" that is described with: "Performance penalty is still to big, a new approach with no performance penalty will be tested later" on the upstream githib. This may make current testing irrelevant relative to the future. > Here, with 3 G, fast storage, and swap off: UFS and ZFS seemed much = the same. >=20 > RELEASE, quarterly. >=20 >=20 > UFS (dmesg: 2928 MB avail memory) > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > Fourth command (pkg upgrade -fUy). >=20 > First run failed. vm.pageout_oom_seq=3D120 Not good news for folks with small arm boards or the like: unreliable. > Second and third runs (not consecutive to the first): success. For the = third run, I reduced vm.pageout_oom_seq to its default (12). You do not report observations of how large the Swap Used got to be for any of your runs, failed or working ones. >=20 > ZFS (dmesg: 2920 MB avail memory) > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > Four consecutive runs of the fourth command. >=20 > Two runs with vm.pageout_oom_seq=3D120: success. Third and fourth runs = with vm.pageout_oom_seq=3D12: >=20 > - the third run failed almost immediately, before step 1 of 2601 >=20 > - the fourth run succeeded. Also unreliable. No Swap Used figures for this either. It is not clear what runs might be "barely fit" vs. what runs might be "lots of margin". Nor is there a scale to the variability that you are reporting. One possible (likely?) difference in your tests and mine is what I reported about which base packages were installed for my test context: all of them (534 or so if I remember right), even the debug information. That contributes to what the "pkg upgrade -fUy" activity is. Another is that the test was based on booting and using a USB3 memory stick SSD, not large U.2 or PCIe Optane media or something else comparatively fast. =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com