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Date:      Fri, 29 Sep 2017 08:54:28 +0200
From:      Ben RUBSON <ben.rubson@gmail.com>
To:        Freebsd fs <freebsd-fs@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: How to create holes in files ?
Message-ID:  <7F95ECD3-3284-4808-9182-AF3FE5970333@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <1506666838.7204.39.camel@inparadise.se>
References:  <12ed413d-00d1-4182-bdd5-0e5230d46f01@email.android.com> <4D304428-E4AF-45D4-AB2E-D4B73A7FEE87@gmail.com> <1506664468.7204.37.camel@inparadise.se> <454261D6-0061-4DB9-8184-BDD7061870FB@gmail.com> <1506666838.7204.39.camel@inparadise.se>

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> On 29 Sep 2017, at 08:33, Karli Sj=C3=B6berg <karli@inparadise.se> =
wrote:
>=20
> On fre, 2017-09-29 at 08:26 +0200, Ben RUBSON wrote:
>>>=20
>>> On 29 Sep 2017, at 07:54, Karli Sj=C3=B6berg <karli@inparadise.se>
>>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> On tor, 2017-09-28 at 22:16 +0200, Ben RUBSON wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On 28 Sep 2017, at 20:48, Karli Sj=C3=B6berg <karli@inparadise.se>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Den 28 sep. 2017 6:47 em skrev Ben RUBSON <ben.rubson@gmail.com
>>>>>> :
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On 28 Sep 2017, at 18:34, Bob Eager wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Thu, 28 Sep 2017 17:26:09 +0200
>>>>>> Fabian Keil wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Ben RUBSON wrote:
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> I'm trying to make holes in files in C.
>>>>>>>> Goal is to deallocate huge files on ZFS while (randomly)
>>>>>>>> reading
>>>>>>>> them.=20
>>>>>>> My interpretation of the above is that you want to create
>>>>>>> holes
>>>>>>> without changing the file size and without affecting data
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> is located before or after the holes that you want to
>>>>>>> create.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Otherwise you could simply "deallocate" the content with
>>>>>>> truncate(1).
>>>>>> If he doesn't mind copying the files, dd(1) will do the job.
>>>>>> However, I
>>>>>> expect that doesn't meet his criteria.
>>>>> Thank you Bob for your suggestion.
>>>>> You're right goal is to avoid copying data : free space would
>>>>> not
>>>>> necessarily
>>>>> allow this, and as the files I'm working on are some hundreds
>>>>> of GB
>>>>> in size,
>>>>> it would really be a counterproductive long stressing storage
>>>>> operation.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't dd with "seek"
>>>>> mitigate
>>>>> the issue of writing out all of the data from beginning to end.
>>>>> If
>>>>> you seek from the beginning of the file to the point you want
>>>>> to
>>>>> start writing from and use bs to specify how large of a "hole"
>>>>> you
>>>>> want, the operation wouldn't take long at all. You would, in my
>>>>> opinion, achieve exactly what you want, to "create holes in
>>>>> files".
>>>>> Am I wrong?
>>>> I would have liked to do this in C.
>>> Yepp, I understand that, I was just bringing up the idea. But hey,
>>> if
>>> dd can do it, just look in the source of how it does it?
>> Of course yes, you're right :)
>>=20
>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> And the holes I need to create are not necessarily at the
>>>> beginning
>>>> of a file.
>>> No, you _do not_ have to create holes in the beginning of a file,
>>> you
>>> can do it anywhere in the file you like. E.g. it=C2=B4s the trick I =
use
>>> to
>>> "clean" hardrives to make them look empty, by only erasing the
>>> first
>>> and last 10 MB of the drives, a whole JBOD only takes seconds to
>>> clean.
>>> Say you have a 10 MB large file and you want to make a 1 MB large
>>> hole
>>> somewhere in the middle of it, you do it like this:
>>>=20
>>> # dd if=3D/dev/zero of=3D/foo/bar.bin bs=3D1M seek=3D7
>>>=20
>>> It=C2=B4ll make the file look like this inside (hope the ASCII gods =
are
>>> with
>>> me):
>>>  ____________
>>>>=20
>>>> _______|_|__|
>> Unfortunately here storage blocks will be set/written to 0,
>> they will not be freed/recovered, a file hole will not be created.
>> Below are some commands which demonstrate this.
>> The last 3/4 commands show a _newly_ created file with a hole.
>>=20
>> # zfs userspace home
>> POSIX User  root  36.5K   none
>>=20
>> # dd if=3D/dev/random of=3Df bs=3D1M count=3D4
>> 4+0 records out
>>=20
>> # zfs userspace home
>> POSIX User  root  4.04M   none
>>=20
>> # dd if=3D/dev/zero of=3Df bs=3D1M count=3D2 seek=3D2
>> 2+0 records out
>>=20
>> # zfs userspace home
>> POSIX User  root  4.04M   none
>>=20
>> # rm f
>>=20
>> # dd if=3D/dev/zero of=3Df bs=3D1M count=3D2 seek=3D2
>> 2+0 records out
>>=20
>> # zfs userspace home
>> POSIX User  root  2.04M   none
>>=20
>> # ls -lh f
>> -rw-------  1 root  wheel   4.0M 29 Sep 08:19 f
>=20
> Ah, I see, nice demonstration! But wouldn=C2=B4t TRIM take of that =
though
> (if that=C2=B4s available)?

Good question ! I'm however not sure TRIM would notify ZFS about
space not consumed. In addition I'm mainly on non-SSD drives :-/

Ben




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