From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jul 19 18:09:09 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE26165B92D for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 18:09:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aimass@yabarana.com) Received: from mail-ej1-x634.google.com (mail-ej1-x634.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::634]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4GT8xK1gjWz4mm6 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 18:09:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aimass@yabarana.com) Received: by mail-ej1-x634.google.com with SMTP id go30so30205294ejc.8 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 11:09:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yabarana-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=JHCJSDf5Wj1/0fIvDthu6V9jqLADjbYKvzY6fpnEI6M=; b=v3K/S7DdzlJazVqaQ1f19oHlXwbx1Chz7tv9NSN5WoApjA5dB3SBwS6mZ5T779lhtA axFu+5muf+NFLU1MGQKVyZszYGfe2Gy0IbnOg+TMlTVfSfS02LcrKgmf58ButNdbumb4 1VZexeqhlhzPvvoQk+47jB2P1bdYPRdV7xt6HC2V13X6wPOu7OGmBWFzsM0PgXrTjdMT wERMG9R1lL5dg8QgVeph3C5DJp3cbMbh+C7i2uABEW3zTE6zHqGOPF6JKvX6CLcFq1dY FQ/kwzbvHpTMFA6IraoT0YT0uPkGsbtb5kLIwsFcpSsaORiq1Nco2cVMRsCKWfTEaLfe TFaw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=JHCJSDf5Wj1/0fIvDthu6V9jqLADjbYKvzY6fpnEI6M=; b=pIvH4jA1M6SA1MAchVn5ueBBvFFbTkzuebiomuHmkUY+iVINo2YQyngs+O8nK9CmzY 7J+lKL/Rv4MFmq7IZcPzvmnErnTjhMD+7tjS3O9U7VyJC5qLHNXSB8lbJFL4vV/7uk3y s/cF09gsF19BFp/CXrox15Vd+5OZnBL/2OmOsBHOjyEASskntyfkxyOHtiSi7+mX1f/M fvsKQKGYoc6MV1S7K5wL63HzBgzCd4hUrV3vO6kbm8YF6xcqyR22SEW4DLbcVdW4MYLA picyTQbSEhUg6HURE1ZbUvy6lVRW4kgYRslgx3edF4yHQqUWTtAsEmareKnfgEROh5AC 0wPA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532iqhNcRKgnPLjx9f1XApNW843I8jRgOAZJaLe6iGPHwytL7qA/ oBCVqsQ0lxkXs57x6GheuvmtWCvI3AlzYU7tGijleg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwz3rKIwAysd4xIIEOqgwgU6+6sultXmMiAW45iZHeXg/sQU25VntMshLMtgUyZzJ8PEV13TVQcKFnnLVN1ZSA= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:3d94:: with SMTP id he20mr28251649ejc.473.1626718147828; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 11:09:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Alejandro Imass Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 14:08:56 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD To: ezekiel motta Cc: FreeBSD Questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4GT8xK1gjWz4mm6 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yabarana-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=v3K/S7Dd; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aimass@yabarana.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::634 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aimass@yabarana.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.66 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yabarana-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[yabarana.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.84)[0.844]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::634:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yabarana-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::634:from]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::634:from]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 18:09:09 -0000 On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 1:22 PM ezekiel motta wrote: > Precisely. Apple is parasitical, but so is everyone else. Google's use of > Linux, Torvald's use of Unix, Ubuntu's use of Debian, PopOS use of Ubuntu= , > Manjaro's use of Arch, ad infinitum. > There is nothing morally repugnant about it, just as there is nothing > repugnant about the remora's behaviour vis a vis the shark. > I did not mean it as a moralistic comment. > > Parasitical usually means all take and no give back which IMHO is very well represented by Oracle and their CEO actually saying it out aloud: "Larry Ellison: =E2=80=9CIf an Open Source Product Gets Good Enough, We=E2=80=99ll= Simply Take It.=E2=80=9D Most everyone else you mentioned above has given a lot of valu= e to their original projects. For example, Ubuntu has probably given more to Debian than people might realize. E.g. If you have a hardware issue in Debian, you will probably find the answer in an Ubuntu forum or mailing list, and most of the time, these patches make their way back to Debian and/or the Linux kernel. I think derived works and/or forks are more of an ecosystem model than parasitical. There are some notable exceptions, but in general I think that most who fork, will happily give back to their upstream. Back to FreeBSD, IMO the Desktop is definitively not the focus, although there are many hard-core FBSD users who use it as a workstation. The opportunity is there, especially with FBSD's licencing, but I think it requires some financial benefit to make it worthwhile to invest in the arduous process of maintaining workstation type software, and convincing partners to join your cause, for example basic stuff like Skype or Zoom. IIRC iXsystems tried this with TrueOS, I am guessing inspired by their success with FreeNAS, but eventually killed the project: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueOS IMO (and this is not criticism) the core FreeBSD is not really interested in the applications of FreeBSD as such but more to maintain the original and purest possible form of Unix remaining on the planet. That is why I don't see *BSD projects as parasitical at all, but rather focused implementations / applications of FreeBSD. Best, --=20 Alejandro Imass