From owner-cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 8 02:01:30 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: cvs-all@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A29D71065670; Thu, 8 May 2008 02:01:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu) Received: from hergotha.csail.mit.edu (hergotha.csail.mit.edu [66.92.79.170]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FC9E8FC25; Thu, 8 May 2008 02:01:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu) Received: from hergotha.csail.mit.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hergotha.csail.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m481d5eO020353; Wed, 7 May 2008 21:39:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu) Received: (from wollman@localhost) by hergotha.csail.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id m481d54B020350; Wed, 7 May 2008 21:39:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wollman) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <18466.22969.506620.244442@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 21:39:05 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman To: Alfred Perlstein In-Reply-To: <20080507231444.GF32532@elvis.mu.org> References: <200805051603.m45G3rrN089219@repoman.freebsd.org> <200805051637.43073.jhb@freebsd.org> <20080507064013.GU32532@elvis.mu.org> <200805071111.39938.jhb@freebsd.org> <20080507231444.GF32532@elvis.mu.org> X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.4 (patch 21) "Educational Television" XEmacs Lucid X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (hergotha.csail.mit.edu [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 07 May 2008 21:39:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=disabled version=3.2.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on hergotha.csail.mit.edu Cc: cvs-src@FreeBSD.org, src-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/include stdio.h src/lib/libc/stdio clrerr.c feof.c ferror.c fileno.c getc.c getchar.c local.h putc.c putchar.c xprintf.c X-BeenThere: cvs-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: CVS commit messages for the entire tree List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 02:01:30 -0000 < said: > I don't think that's really fair, stdio has had adequate accessors > for a long time Actually, no it hasn't. std stdio does not provide visibility into its internal buffering state so that implementations would not be constrained. This does not mean that useful applications would never want to access this information, only that accessing it is not Portable-with-a-capital-P. (Many of these applications implement things which are inherently not Portable anyway, like garbage collection.) I like the idea of making FILE opaque, in the abstract, but it does come with some very real costs, and if we're not prepared to pay those costs, we need to leave FILE translucent at the very least. (At least we can be certain that only the library ever allocates a FILE object, which isn't the case for some other warty interfaces.) -GAWollman