From owner-svn-src-head@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 24 20:52:58 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECFC9106567A; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:52:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from delphij@delphij.net) Received: from tarsier.geekcn.org (tarsier.geekcn.org [IPv6:2001:470:a803::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61CF58FC26; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:52:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.geekcn.org (tarsier.geekcn.org [211.166.10.233]) by tarsier.geekcn.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BD8BA686DE; Sat, 25 Sep 2010 04:52:56 +0800 (CST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at geekcn.org Received: from tarsier.geekcn.org ([211.166.10.233]) by mail.geekcn.org (mail.geekcn.org [211.166.10.233]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id PBM1M1F1uc+G; Sat, 25 Sep 2010 04:52:50 +0800 (CST) Received: from delta.delphij.net (drawbridge.ixsystems.com [206.40.55.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tarsier.geekcn.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8B932A6868C; Sat, 25 Sep 2010 04:52:47 +0800 (CST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=default; d=delphij.net; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:organization:user-agent: mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to: x-enigmail-version:openpgp:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=vNXUaZg8IzHzj993UsfNi7RTztzGjA+RRGhLWPbUW/FaMlojN8LGTHCgRx20/lsze 5GUzJl7Yjzoif0gvGfk3w== Message-ID: <4C9D0F9C.1020607@delphij.net> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:52:44 -0700 From: Xin LI Organization: The FreeBSD Project User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.12) Gecko/20100920 Thunderbird/3.0.8 ThunderBrowse/3.3.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "M. Warner Losh" References: <20100922222441.00002f27@unknown> <1285253887.95760.33.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <20100923.203143.19192035494300157.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <20100923.203143.19192035494300157.imp@bsdimp.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 OpenPGP: id=3FCA37C1; url=http://www.delphij.net/delphij.asc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: bruce@cran.org.uk, src-committers@FreeBSD.ORG, kensmith@buffalo.edu, jhb@FreeBSD.ORG, svn-src-all@FreeBSD.ORG, avg@FreeBSD.ORG, gavin@FreeBSD.ORG, svn-src-head@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svn commit: r212964 - head/sys/kern X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: d@delphij.net List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:52:58 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2010/09/23 19:31, M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: > Gavin Atkinson writes: > : On Thu, 23 Sep 2010, Ken Smith wrote: > : > The issues talked about so far all contribute to the reason for that. > : > But one of the more basic gut reactions to it all is that the users > : > want to be interested in helping with the debugging (even if just > : > providing the requested info) for any sort of crash information > : > to be useful. And at the point we shift something from -current > : > to -stable the percentage of people actively interested in participating > : > in that sort of stuff flip. The bulk of people using -current > : > know it's risky and they do it out of some interest in debugging > : > stuff. The *bulk* of people using -stable are less interested or > : > flat out not interested. And have no clue what crash dumps are, > : > may be challenged to notice partition-getting-full issues, etc. > : > : I'm not sure I buy this argument, I'm afraid. Part of the advantage of > : having all this done automatically on the as-shipped release media is that > : end users don't have to be interested in debugging - crashinfo(8) does > : most of the work for them. There's no easy way to actually determine > : figures, but even if say only 10-15% of crashes can be diagnosed and > : corrected just from the output of crashinfo(8) then that's a huge win for > : the project as a whole. I'm guessing 10-15% is not unrealistic. > : > : I appreciate the issue about filling partitions is a valid one. Would a > : possible compromise be that on release media, crashinfo(8) or similar will > : default to only keeping the most recent coredump or similar? Given /var > : now defaults to 4GB, Defaulting to keeping a single core is probably > : acceptable. > > Furthermore, if we aren't interested in crash dumps by default, why do > we install the huge .symbols files? +1. Even textdump would be a huge help for the project (except it depends on KDB/DDB which should be considered more thoroughly due to security consequences). Cheers, - -- Xin LI http://www.delphij.net/ FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! Live free or die -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (FreeBSD) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJMnQ+cAAoJEATO+BI/yjfBv+gH/27HC9fRFNlYh28YypZFjK/K FWKed15ZK+kR8pAvpONibBY/yWAWzsYyCxADn0q2aGAYItukQkonZnTWAQTbcbaG d4begzGOrr9xWRYbIar8VvLM7mlUu99FNVkscFMsNvkD6mMP7N6MB9SNnqg/yRSo jbSUceIkASnZni0poHoAKCpBJsPu2Yt/XnBXhbtR6tzHiWZKqKMCm5yfDHvH0+Cw kNcR6jInnGJk8f2qk2a6h2Qtu6/R9vwkmidtBCX7CLba07yRHP/cgjiAN79AgnKx 7AHw5ZCItGJMjyGukuc1eSBPJluzmTRXwhzZt+zbTB5He3gWe78jRkylDoj0qMw= =TtpC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----