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Date:      Fri, 23 Sep 2022 22:37:54 -0600
From:      Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
To:        Cy Schubert <Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com>
Cc:        Mike Karels <mike@karels.net>, Gregory Byshenk <freebsd@byshenk.net>,  src-committers <src-committers@freebsd.org>,  "<dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org>" <dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org>, dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: git: 24e1824e4646 - main - Deprecate telnet daemon
Message-ID:  <CANCZdfq6P7QyuHvHy5UpxVoc2zqrfjnuk-xEn8FQYjn8Wwj6jw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20220924043513.5EB8223C@slippy.cwsent.com>
References:  <202209211517.28LFHkoJ089471@gitrepo.freebsd.org> <20220921163951.17C77AC@slippy.cwsent.com> <8EC34FC3-F299-4B03-AD4E-83D062D0E9F6@karels.net> <Yyt%2BEOM/Bnth88Xv@FreeBSD.org> <5c162710def7eb94c032dfab73e9560e@lerctr.org> <6C27C573-601C-40F8-99C9-C964F9C2B3E2@karels.net> <YyxRqBdFfg1in/nO@v1.leiden.byshenk.net> <FE029833-BB8D-4831-A707-891AD0DB518E@karels.net> <20220924043513.5EB8223C@slippy.cwsent.com>

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On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 10:35 PM Cy Schubert <Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com>
wrote:

> In message <FE029833-BB8D-4831-A707-891AD0DB518E@karels.net>, Mike Karels
> write
> s:
> > On 22 Sep 2022, at 7:14, Gregory Byshenk wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 04:42:32PM -0500, Mike Karels wrote:
> > >
> > >> Ditto on the finger memory.  And I tried this:
> > >>
> > >> mike@backup$ nc mail 25
> > >> 220 mail.karels.net Service ready
> > >> helo backup.karels.net
> > >> 500 Command missing Carriage Return
> > >>
> > >> telnet also accepts a service name instead of a port number (part of
> t=
> > he
> > >> finger memory).
> > >
> > > I understand the finger memory. Sometimes at $job I still type
> > > 'telnet' on machines that I know do not have a telnet client.
> > >
> > > But a 'nc -t <hostname> <port>' should solve the problem you
> > > show above. It does for me, in any case.
> >
> > It does not; the result is the same.  The man page does not
> > say anything about newline handling with -t; not sure what
> > it is supposed to do.
> >
> > I also note that nc doesn=E2=80=99t pass control characters like
> > ^D and ^C.
> >
> > Responding to an earlier message: telnet should remain in
> > base, not moved to a port.
>
> Another idea that just occurred to me while reviewing some code is, should
> we adopt the NetBSD telnet (and optionally telnetd)? Telnet is not the
> most
> interesting software to work on and is easily forgotten, not to mention
> we're all busy working on other more useful projects. NetBSD somewhat more
> active maintenance of telnet/telnetd would free up FreeBSD resources. I've
> been toying with the idea of possibly net/netbsd-telnet and
> net/netbsd-telnetd ports. But if we feel replacing FreeBSD telnet/telnetd
> with NetBSD versions might free up some resources, it's worth pondering
> and
> discussing replacing what we have in src with the NetBSD versions.
>
> Though our contrib/telnet was a vendor import at some point. Where did we
> get it from? Does that upstream still exist?
>
> Seems logical to me that for software in its twilight years we may be
> better off collaborating with other BSDs to reduce effort needed to
> maintain such software.
>
> Just throwing it out there for people to think about this weekend.
>

The usual question is 'is it a drop in replacement'? and are there FreeBSD
specific
features of telnet that we'd lose... I'm guessing the answer would be 'yes'
and 'no'
respectively...

Warner

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 10:35 PM Cy S=
chubert &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com">Cy.Schubert@cschub=
ert.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex">In message &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:FE029833-BB8D-4831-A707-891AD0DB518=
E@karels.net" target=3D"_blank">FE029833-BB8D-4831-A707-891AD0DB518E@karels=
.net</a>&gt;, Mike Karels <br>
write<br>
s:<br>
&gt; On 22 Sep 2022, at 7:14, Gregory Byshenk wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 04:42:32PM -0500, Mike Karels wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Ditto on the finger memory.=C2=A0 And I tried this:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; mike@backup$ nc mail 25<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; 220 <a href=3D"http://mail.karels.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">mail.karels.net</a> Service ready<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; helo <a href=3D"http://backup.karels.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">backup.karels.net</a><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; 500 Command missing Carriage Return<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; telnet also accepts a service name instead of a port number (=
part of t=3D<br>
&gt; he<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; finger memory).<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; I understand the finger memory. Sometimes at $job I still type<br=
>
&gt; &gt; &#39;telnet&#39; on machines that I know do not have a telnet cli=
ent.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; But a &#39;nc -t &lt;hostname&gt; &lt;port&gt;&#39; should solve =
the problem you<br>
&gt; &gt; show above. It does for me, in any case.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It does not; the result is the same.=C2=A0 The man page does not<br>
&gt; say anything about newline handling with -t; not sure what<br>
&gt; it is supposed to do.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I also note that nc doesn=3DE2=3D80=3D99t pass control characters like=
<br>
&gt; ^D and ^C.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Responding to an earlier message: telnet should remain in<br>
&gt; base, not moved to a port.<br>
<br>
Another idea that just occurred to me while reviewing some code is, should =
<br>
we adopt the NetBSD telnet (and optionally telnetd)? Telnet is not the most=
 <br>
interesting software to work on and is easily forgotten, not to mention <br=
>
we&#39;re all busy working on other more useful projects. NetBSD somewhat m=
ore <br>
active maintenance of telnet/telnetd would free up FreeBSD resources. I&#39=
;ve <br>
been toying with the idea of possibly net/netbsd-telnet and <br>
net/netbsd-telnetd ports. But if we feel replacing FreeBSD telnet/telnetd <=
br>
with NetBSD versions might free up some resources, it&#39;s worth pondering=
 and <br>
discussing replacing what we have in src with the NetBSD versions.<br>
<br>
Though our contrib/telnet was a vendor import at some point. Where did we <=
br>
get it from? Does that upstream still exist?<br>
<br>
Seems logical to me that for software in its twilight years we may be <br>
better off collaborating with other BSDs to reduce effort needed to <br>
maintain such software.<br>
<br>
Just throwing it out there for people to think about this weekend.<br></blo=
ckquote><div><br></div><div>The usual question is &#39;is it a drop in repl=
acement&#39;? and are there FreeBSD specific</div><div>features of telnet t=
hat we&#39;d lose... I&#39;m guessing the answer would be &#39;yes&#39; and=
 &#39;no&#39;</div><div>respectively...</div><div><br></div><div>Warner=C2=
=A0</div></div></div>

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