From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 26 11:28:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83CA716A4BF for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:28:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apollo2.cloudnet.com (apollo2.cloudnet.com [209.188.96.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B16CD43FE9 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:28:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tyler@statuo.com) Received: from TYBOX (hidden-user@mtc.cloudnet.com [209.188.99.187] (may be forged)) by apollo2.cloudnet.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7QIS22e035028; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:28:02 -0500 (CDT) From: "Tyler Kellen" To: Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:28:14 -0500 Message-ID: <001a01c36bff$cff9e840$a700000a@TYBOX> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <3F4B9BE0.5010209@acm.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.33 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Minimalist FreeBSD 4.8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 18:28:07 -0000 Tim, I've been pointed in the direction of the delete-and-reboot method a few times before. I'd really like some pointers for trimming down quickly that doesn't involve hours of trial and error. I don't need all of the functionality that base system offers. When and if I do, I'd like to put it on the system myself. Just so you have a little background, I am a seasoned C & C++ programmer. I'm currently doing some web-based application development utilizing asp/mssql. In the past I've worked with php/postgresql. I'm not a novice by a long shot when it comes to this sort of tinkering. Even so this process has proved itself pretty daunting. I find it much easier to learn when everything on my system was put there by me (within reason). I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I feel like I can't get there with FreeBSD. It bugs me to the point of turning back to Linux. I'm doing a make buildworld as we speak, hopefully going through this process will help a bit. What I'd really like to know is how to strip down a working system. If This hasn't been done, I guess I'm looking for someone with the knowledge and the time/generosity to help me figure it out. Once I get there, I intend to post it on my website for other converts who may feel the same way. This forum is most likely going to be my last resort, as I have looked pretty much everywhere I can think to look. Is there anything else you can offer to get me moving in the desired direction? -T -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Tim Kientzle Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 12:42 PM To: Tyler Kellen Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Minimalist FreeBSD 4.8 Tyler Kellen wrote: > I've got a 4.8 minimal install on an extra machine. As an LFS user > I find the FreeBSD 4.8 minimal install to be pretty far from minimal. You've found one of the major differences between FreeBSD and Linux. In short, FreeBSD is a complete system. It's designed, developed, and maintained as a single coherent project. (There are a few components that are imported from outside sources, but the key approach is still the same: the source code from those outside projects is integrated into FreeBSD's source code and then maintained as a part of the integrated FreeBSD project.) In contrast, Linux distributions are assembled from the results of a number of independently-managed projects. As a result, it is quite natural to remove (or not install) components of a Linux distribution. This is a less natural thing to do with FreeBSD. It is possible, and minimal FreeBSD systems are being used in a lot of embedded systems (such as routers, email appliances, and the like), but it does require a bit of expertise to get there. > I've checked > out the PicoBSD project, the MiniBSD project and the FreeBSD From > Scratch projects extensively. I'm not famillar enough with FreeBSD to > get any of them up and running the way I want. Those projects are intended more for people knowledgable about FreeBSD who want to customize FreeBSD for specialized applications. They really aren't designed for people just getting started. > I'm looking for a way to strip down my 4.8 box to nothing but gcc and > vi. Unfortunately I don't quite know how to get there. > I'm hoping to end up with an empty system that I can fool > around with and learn from the bottom up. My advice: start deleting things and see what happens. You can always re-install from the CDROM and start over if necessary. In the case of FreeBSD, though, a better way to start learning the system is probably to install a basic system, then learn how to compile and update the system from source code, and then start playing with the various customization options there (read "man make.conf" carefully, experiment with kernel configuration, etc.). That will help you get a feel for how the various pieces interact and which ones are important for what uses. You may want to set yourself a goal of building your own customized release CDs (e.g. "make release"). By the time you get there, you'll have a pretty good feel for the FreeBSD system as a whole. If you have programming skills, you can then start digging into the source code and seeing how it all works internally. If not, you can still get a lot out of browsing through the source tree to see what's there and how it all fits together. And, of course, read the mailing lists and ask questions. You've already got that part. FreeBSD is a great system. Welcome to the club! Tim Kientzle _______________________________________________ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"