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Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:56:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: mi@aldan.algebra.com
Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/share/syscons/fonts cp866u-8x14.fnt cp866u-8x16
  .fnt         cp866u-8x8.fnt koi8-u-8x14.fnt koi8-u-8x16.fnt koi8-u-8x8.fnt
  INDEX.fonts Makefile src/share/syscons/keymaps         ua.koi8-u.sh ift.al
  t.kbd INDEX.keymaps Makefile ...
To: "Andrey A. Chernov" <ache@nagual.pp.ru>
Cc: cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org
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On 20 Apr, Andrey A. Chernov wrote:
= On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 18:19:29 -0400, mi@aldan.algebra.com wrote:
= 
= > Well, let  me rephrase  it. Are ALL  of the  pseudo-graphics symbols
= > available in  ASCII also available  in KOI8-R (even if  at different
= > positions)?
=
= There is no pseudographics in ASCII.

Oh... I think, you understood, what I meant, but I'll try again. Replace
"ASCII" above  by "the  charset commonly  used by  pseudo-graphics using
programs, whose authors are unaware  of any other languages or character
sets but English and latin".

Or, in particular, the koi8-r table on your web-site

	http://koi8.pp.ru/koi8-r.gif

seems  to suggest,  that two  pseudo-graphical symbols  (not sure  which
ones) were  sacrificed to  make room  for e: and  E: (positions  163 and
179).

= > In  any case,  I'd suggest  we  make a  symlink koi8  -> koi8-u  for
= > compatibility with OpenBSD if for no other reasons.
=
= I suggest OpenBSD developers to fix their mistaken decision.

Well, in the bad old days of Soviet Union there was no KOI8-R or KOI8-U.
There was  KOI8: "Kod  Obmena Informaciej,  8-bitovyj". Having  at least
something, that  is called KOI8 is  good, IMO. For completeness  sake, I
think, that "something" should be, what is now called koi8-u.

Whether or not OpenBSD's decision is mistaken is irrelevant -- we can be
compatible without making the same mistake (if it is a mistake).

= > May  be, teach  the termcap  to  look for:  $TERM-$CHARSET prior  to
= > looking  for  $TERM  itself  in the  database  (with  charset  being
= > obtained from LANG)? What will this break?
=
= It breaks  libtermcap and libncurses  documented way of  things making
= unportable programs at least.

Well,  the  programs themselves  will  be  portable,  since all  of  the
assumptions and modifications will be  inside libtermcap -- the app will
continue to (portably) call vline, hline,  etc, but the library will try
to  harder  to figure  out  the  correct characters...  The  portability
argument does not apply, I think.

As far as the "documented way of doing things" -- I just don't know:
	. is the breakage that big?
	. perhaps, it is worth it (assuming, the documentation is modified
	  too) -- to solve the problems I'm referring to (having to mess
	  with /etc/ttys in addition to specifying your language and charset
	  preferences)?

	-mi



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