From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 21 12:36:22 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F3CB106564A for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:36:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-stable@m.gmane.org) Received: from lo.gmane.org (lo.gmane.org [80.91.229.12]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9E148FC17 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:36:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oy253-0005hl-0M for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 14:36:17 +0200 Received: from nuclight.avtf.net ([217.29.94.29]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 14:36:16 +0200 Received: from vadim_nuclight by nuclight.avtf.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 14:36:16 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org From: Vadim Goncharov Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:36:04 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Nuclear Lightning @ Tomsk, TPU AVTF Hostel Lines: 59 Message-ID: References: <201009011653.o81Grkm4056064@fire.js.berklix.net> <201009011902.06538.hselasky@c2i.net> <4C8627A6.1090308@icyb.net.ua> <4C989989.4050408@icyb.net.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: nuclight.avtf.net X-Comment-To: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: slrn/0.9.9p1 (FreeBSD) Subject: Re: HEADS UP: FreeBSD 6.4 and 8.0 EoLs coming soon X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: vadim_nuclight@mail.ru List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:36:22 -0000 Hi Andriy Gapon! On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 14:39:53 +0300; Andriy Gapon wrote about 'Re: HEADS UP: FreeBSD 6.4 and 8.0 EoLs coming soon': >> The Project is ultimately about the users, right? There are early signs that >> some old FreeBSD users get tired from those changes, those removals, lesser >> POLA adherence, marketing-not-technical-stuff for time-not-feature-based >> releases, not so stable -STABLE as it used to be, and so on, migrating to >> other systems. And older users are more valuable to project than newer ones. >> May be it's time to revert to some of thet Old Good Things, if decade-long >> project is mostly ended, while those signs are still early and not a strong >> tendency?.. Given this thread, I've mentioned earlier about 12 messages in >> announce@ from 2002 with such public calls for volunteers - there are several >> years already without these. > Hmm, it's really simple. > If you want to shape the future of the project, then participate in the places > where the future is shaped. If you want to know what's coming up in the future, > then watch the places where the future is shaped. If you don't do either, you get > what you get. Complaining post factum just doesn't work. (Numerous other > examples and projects also demonstrate that). > "Current", "stable" are not some alien versions of FreeBSD for some other strange > people to use. > Those are your future releases. > Not looking into the future has its benefits - you are not doing anything; but it > has costs too - you don't know your future. > Looking into the future and shaping it has obvious costs, but the benefits are > clear too. > Business users and old FreeBSD users should know this best of all. > It's strange that you try speak on their behalf but do not seem to realize these > simple things. The essence of your words and your position in other letters is: "We are an open source project exactly the same kind like many others: we have no [moral] responsibility to our users, we are selfish and want only your code; give us your code and you will have the right to freedom of speech, otherwise you're an untermensch". But FreeBSD Project tries, to the extent possible (of course, volunteers are not paid), be different from those, and provides all those branches, lists, etc. for different people. Business users and old FreeBSD users value FreeBSD for this, and they know that it is official position and documented, e.g.: 12.1 Statement of General Intent The FreeBSD Project targets "production quality commercial off-the-shelf (COTS) workstation, server, and high-end embedded systems". And what they are complaining post factum is that things go _other way than declared_. And they are begin to go the way as you assertions above, which clearly contradicts FreeBSD's official declared goals. Yes, still that an open-source project, there are no liability, etc., etc. But my criticism earlier in the thread was not unconstructive - I've suggested one of the possible ways for those who cannot help us directly by code. Don't reject them just on this criteria (and Project never did before). -- WBR, Vadim Goncharov. ICQ#166852181 mailto:vadim_nuclight@mail.ru [Moderator of RU.ANTI-ECOLOGY][FreeBSD][http://antigreen.org][LJ:/nuclight]