From owner-svn-src-all@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 14 05:48:00 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 382F2B85; Sun, 14 Jun 2015 05:48:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from vps.hungerhost.com (vps.hungerhost.com [64.131.64.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BBF4EBA; Sun, 14 Jun 2015 05:47:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from [137.122.64.33] (port=49785 helo=[10.2.213.120]) by vps.hungerhost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1Z40ly-0007Io-Np; Sun, 14 Jun 2015 01:47:58 -0400 Message-ID: <557D1595.1000104@neville-neil.com> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 01:48:05 -0400 From: George Neville-Neil User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gleb Smirnoff , David Chisnall CC: Ian Lepore , Steve Kargl , Alexander Kabaev , Marcel Moolenaar , src-committers@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, svn-src-head@freebsd.org Subject: Re: svn commit: r284198 - head/bin/ls References: <201506100127.t5A1RdX6051959@svn.freebsd.org> <20150612204309.11dd3391@kan> <20150613024916.GA98218@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1434208622.1415.57.camel@freebsd.org> <20150613191639.GO73119@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20150613191639.GO73119@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - vps.hungerhost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - neville-neil.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: vps.hungerhost.com: authenticated_id: gnn@neville-neil.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 05:48:00 -0000 On 06/13/2015 15:16, Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 11:38:11AM -0400, David Chisnall wrote: > D> > If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that > D> > could make 30 years of experience maintaining code for unix-like systems > D> > completely worthless I would have been skeptical, but it seems we're > D> > well on our way. > D> > D> There is a lot of heckling and unhelpful hyperbole in this thread. Reading the xo_emit format strings takes a little bit of getting used to, but the same is true of printf - it’s just that we’re already used to printf. The structured parts (xo_open_container, xo_close_container and friends) are clear and descriptive. The changes are fairly invasive, but the benefits are also very large for anyone who is wanting to automate administration of FreeBSD systems. > D> > D> If you have suggestions for how the libxo APIs could be improved, then please let us know - Phil is very reception to suggestions but objections along the lines of ‘it’s not what I’m used to and changes sometimes break things so we should never have changes’ are not helpful. > > I would agree with David. After xo_emit format is learned, reading sources > of converted programs isn't a big deal. > > All the problems with converted utilities are due to very bad quality of > initial conversion commits. > Can this whole conversation be moved out of the commits list and onto arch@ where it belongs? Best, George