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[73.19.52.228]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n37sm772239pjb.0.2019.05.27.19.23.29 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 May 2019 19:23:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Enji Cooper Message-Id: <24F2196F-A5A9-4BBA-B4D4-D6721B42A7C8@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Subject: Re: Disabling COMPAT_FREEBSD4/5/6/7/9 as a default kernel option Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 19:23:28 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Rainer Duffner , "Conrad E. Meyer" , voidanix@420blaze.it, freebsd-current , owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org To: Warner Losh References: <2d16a2a9ac5c090f196674d40d0cb398@ultra-secure.de> <3E7C1D63-996E-4AA0-A0A4-455B996BB9D6@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 1FD6E915A2 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=tq3WeHnL; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of yaneurabeya@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::62f as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=yaneurabeya@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.43 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.92)[-0.922,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-2.99)[ip: (-9.34), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.29), asn: 15169(-2.28), country: US(-0.06)]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[f.2.6.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 02:23:33 -0000 > On May 27, 2019, at 7:20 PM, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 > On Mon, May 27, 2019, 6:49 PM Enji Cooper > wrote: >=20 > > On May 27, 2019, at 08:27, rainer@ultra-secure.de = wrote: > >=20 > > Am 2019-05-27 17:05, schrieb Conrad Meyer: > >> Hi Rainier, > >> On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 7:47 AM > wrote: > >>> I have a 32bit FreeBSD 6 binary that I'll need for a bit until the > >>> department who is technically responsible for the service gets = around > >>> redoing that service. > >> Even if this proposal is approved, it would only affect 13+. You > >> could still run your FreeBSD 6 binary in a 32-bit 12 VM in a 13+ > >> Bhyve. But do consider lighting a fire under whatever department > >> thinks it's ok to deploy like that :-). > >> Take care, > >> Conrad > >=20 > >=20 > > I thought so, too. > >=20 > > I don't really want to run the abandonware of a RADIUS-server any = longer than necessary (as absurd as that sounds). > >=20 > > It's also running a recursive nameserver (previously also = authoritative) that is still hard-coded in CPE and computers behind = firewalls. > >=20 > > I first wanted to virtualize it (it's not a big problem) - but this = way the problem is just dragged out: "But it still works, does it and we = have no time". > >=20 > > Everybody now knows that the clock is ticking, literally. > >=20 > > Oh, I also remember George Neville-Neil talking about a - what - = FreeBSD 4 binary that a certain search-engine had lost the sources for = and was running on FreeBSD 7 with compat4. > > (We also have a client who literally begged us to leave a decade-old = Solaris box running through 2019 and half of 2020 so they could continue = to do their bookkeeping on a home-grown java-app that I suspect they, = too have lost the sources to...). It's running jdk15 and getting that = thing to run under anything semi-decent doesn't seem to have worked-out = too well. > > So, people pray for the best and don't prepare for the worst. > >=20 > >=20 > > Other stuff I can think of: > > - very old Netbackup-Clients (like 5-series), though I doubt they = still work on recent releases, because 7.71 (last official version and = intended for FreeBSD 11) stopped working on FreeBSD12, sadly) > > - certain pre-compiled VMWare Tools Modules? Pre open-source-tools = (I can never make up my mind if it's VMWare-open-Tools or = Open-VMWare-Tools or something different) > >=20 > >=20 > > What ever people do with COMPAT4-9 - it's bordering the = pathological. >=20 > I=E2=80=99ll counter the OP=E2=80=99s suggestion a bit: >=20 > It would be nice if the compat options were modularized and printed = out an EOS warning when loaded, so the user was aware that the modules = are not supported by FreeBSD, in terms of security and whatnot. >=20 > How is that relevant? They just control system calls, not any userland = libraries that might or might not have a security exposure. Plus, if not = done right you either startle the horses for no reason, or you run the = risk of a console DoS if you print something on each system call=E2=80=A6 My point was to suggest basically controlling the syscall table (like = linux does for instance). If a compat module was loaded, it would print = out the warning. Not on each syscall entry. That would be insanity as = far as performance degradation would be concerned :/. -Enji