From owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 6 14:05:27 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1101F106566B for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2008 14:05:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pisymbol@gmail.com) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.230]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E05CC8FC13 for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2008 14:05:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pisymbol@gmail.com) Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id b25so1139284rvf.43 for ; Sat, 06 Sep 2008 07:05:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=3q749SPM68E5eTAcnb/bFkWJzxgF/j9pE7CrXg86MBk=; b=I1wP1O3GTunHIFaCT0BbEexsKgXABtqNXS/1ZdxaRdo1itiwnLred2wJUxICnN7xot 3n0pTD0SO6SKr3O0hf0o7/5T/uw+G0UkeO9ArpA8ETqXweIx/BEZP4Omn1KDQwlUiEwc AM1kbj2kxj5jGTJq4qFbKmxlUx8iKD40EQ6Zg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=oiFKrDFO1mXvt8W9u9ZnS8R9yZIt1x+EhvfSpjRPVV2zPWSJ4WJXZlmeV+hvw3nyVo J0DqJtNI4OdNqTWcX+UW+BP3xLZ6cTeHpl0lMDq/+AkzO5mH7ddRMNzSVp9R/4ZP5xe2 0tz7QYQrfE5AosUMjuolktG8hVO8HVa3USsZQ= Received: by 10.140.139.3 with SMTP id m3mr7479243rvd.44.1220709926010; Sat, 06 Sep 2008 07:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.136.21 with HTTP; Sat, 6 Sep 2008 07:05:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c0b01820809060705p74261c59s9f5e97a5e0a6a28c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 10:05:25 -0400 From: "Alexander Sack" To: "Julian Stacey" In-Reply-To: <200809051448.m85Em223012180@fire.js.berklix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200809050956.53652.lists@jnielsen.net> <200809051448.m85Em223012180@fire.js.berklix.net> Cc: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Subject: Re: how to format an ide hard disc in a usb enclosure X-BeenThere: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: SCSI subsystem List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 14:05:27 -0000 On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Julian Stacey wrote: > Aargh ! Please, no more superficial responses', if people don't > know: Don't answer ! Label & dd noise is Irrelevant. Facts: I > want to _Format_ the hardware. Whether others personaly dont > _reccomend_ that is irrelevant. > > FreeBSD Did used to support issuing SCSI commands to low level > format a device, at least over scsi cable. IDE devices do support > low level format, whether others approve or not, I've `low level > (*)' formatted both IDE & SCSI disks lots of times over decades, > using eg adapter cards, DOS progs etc, & yes FreeBSD too for scsi > (once was a command scsiformat I recall too). Its not superficial, IDE does not support the *format* command. Check the ATA spec: http://www.real-world-systems.com/docs/e07163r2-Comments_on_ATA8-ACS_revision_4a.pdf.gz (or T13.org AT Group etc.) THERE IS NO FORMAT COMMAND. Check the spec, there is nothing *superficial* in what we are saying to you. Using camcontrol to send SCSI CDBs to an IDE disk is not going to work (it speaks ATA not SCSI). This is what we are trying to tell you. This isn't a BSD issue, this isn't an OS issue, this isn't a USB issue (go ahead ask, you will get the same answer), this is a hard disk issue in terms of what IDE supports. The old days of low-level format are now buried with the manufacturer and not available to the OS/system software. Low-level format for IDE is only achieved via a special vendor utility that can low-level format it and reset the partition geometry. No modern drive from a modern manufacturer is going to make that utility freely available (and it doesn't speak IDE either its probably at the firmware level of the drive, i.e. this would be a BIOS utility). Whether you use umass, atausb, or some magical driver you write, there is no command to send to this drive to "low-level format" it. Technically speaking if the USB enclosure was made by the hard disk manufacturer and could talk to the drive at its firmware level then I suppose you could send a SCSI CDB via USB umass which would get magically translated/converted to do the *right* vendor specific thing....you see how far-fetched this is? We are trying to save you some time and energy on an endeavor that makes no TECHNICAL sense! :D Thanks! -aps