From nobody Thu Sep 29 06:04:59 2022 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4MdNBJ1cgwz4dWLW for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2022 06:05:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jian.universality@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vk1-xa2c.google.com (mail-vk1-xa2c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::a2c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4MdNBH2XxTz3wFG for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2022 06:05:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jian.universality@gmail.com) Received: by mail-vk1-xa2c.google.com with SMTP id g85so153199vkf.10 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 23:05:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=gTSeXQgUX4SegICQyo5B4r65lALp+u4gBcyJgvtQ7/s=; b=pLKeyq/D/bQuUhyy1nS7jVkeztLT+2wm1H8O/83tgSdFaZ5GXOYVRnfqnKVufwQafS ipoyoaTjir3186bvpFqFQ/ofzU9TVCjNMueDZ4uV/rcixQRhCaCTsxTGMTD1aLJi0/Sk CdsGV6zZeY0GZz1h605KC4+h3R+q7Sch+UOdWBgRxU/R/PIVo/bB3gTx4NU4nswnk2ka aW20I6WhXImMjUUvAwE4eofTBWTVYFqo+8UJSkPv9Gsw1UTrYM7Bxid8kAIs8/6833c+ YqWSmNX24MUuWPvJaIm29Cx27RfzOuDOq98b91UWMM0UFWtu+0vIAzkM1gwmgNpdBjxX jifA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=gTSeXQgUX4SegICQyo5B4r65lALp+u4gBcyJgvtQ7/s=; b=cUDp9HXyeEzkKC8pjIW5jLfPlXfr0EBcVPlk7wJqkqseeiiRTDK8EBncqTKzwtVP+R cSNVZp7L+Z9RkGxtSojktkBzVFqhEFOWCI6z05o6Vg7+e4ybxgrnjKfA3/YxW5PIwahj Evus1dPvu3EA9JYEoYq1s9ASCnmeP7/zp0bL3WKg3MPKZhLhfCbp4j2Qj7H1uQkhOPl6 WuojqjtRn5ipv26rVz/rq94btEJJzgrXnGGMjPFmvKYlTGDA6yv/RVnQLOp5sVn2HQ8o tAqeQMfOoxyHmS7enfNE2IxvKc/yICMPApjuLlh3B/3YsPedggk6IWsXHYYBRnArpLIO /1Tw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf15i9+6uRbh59h+5QM0+51LRo2DuQazczshxstTy24qlHo2jbPl 9npBnMfnPW5RWFgnlKi1zt3jt9ecrBHsyd7GP3GCHs3bpD0DPQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM6C1mnB0iRmJxfZAijz3OoOR6QECbWqmvlm7GX1E85bIOjhTOonMU5jyk4WBC/EdWcp+LPlmsmXoQtLeHGZbZo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6122:10e4:b0:3a3:e3:d448 with SMTP id m4-20020a05612210e400b003a300e3d448mr623340vko.29.1664431510243; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 23:05:10 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: jian he Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:34:59 +0530 Message-ID: Subject: Re: concerns about install freebsd To: Tomek CEDRO Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ebce0b05e9caa84a" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4MdNBH2XxTz3wFG X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b="pLKeyq/D"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jian.universality@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::a2c as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jian.universality@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.987]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20210112]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::a2c:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --000000000000ebce0b05e9caa84a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 12:16 AM Tomek CEDRO wrote: > On Wed, Sep 28, 2022 at 8:08 PM jian he wrote: > > I asked the question about "freebsd graphic text editor". The question > is stupid. > > No stupid questions, just stupid answers :-) > > Long story short, FreeBSD is Unix, but this is not a Linux, its a > different operating system with different kernel and applications are > not really one-to-one compatible from a binary standpoint.. however > FreeBSD can emulate Linux ELF binaries and when all other dependencies > are met Linux application binaries can work on FreeBSD. > > The biggest difference is in philosophy and approach to changes and > long term maintenance. Linux is an example of "Enforced Changes"^TM > ideology even when that makes it self-incompatible in short and long > term. Linux also does not conform to standards as much as FreeBSD (and > other BSD) does, usually you will notice things stop working in Linux > after update, there are compatibility problems between different > versions of the same Linux distributions, etc, etc. FreeBSD on the > other hand comes from Unix and is created by people who actually use > it themselves in serious commercial applications that must be > maintainable in a long periods of time. > > The difference between Linux and BSD can be easily noticed in the > product that they power: Linux -> Google Android (constant changes, > updates, every Android is different), BSD -> iOS (looks and works the > same on different devices, mostly focused on the result of the person > using it). > > Some people prefer BSD some people prefer Linux. "Apples and > Oranges"^TM but you should use both to make conscious decision and > know exactly why. Some people even use both Linux and BSD depending on > the task. > > > > The real questions for me(don't want waste too much time on install) > would be: > > I already installed linux, any external pan drive needs to install > freebsd? > > In the first step just create a VirtualBox machine, install it, create > a snapshot, and see how this works. If anything goes wrong you can > simply rollback a snapshot and you will not loose any real data. > > > > Can I install linux and freebsd in the same machine (I think it's intel > x86 architecture)? If so, can I switch it easily, just use the shortcut key > then switch to another system. > > Yes, you can use them on a separate disks, you can use all of them on one > disk. > > > > How long does it take to install freebsd(all settings default, ignore > internet speed) (I like to first make it work, then try to understand the > system internals). > > At first you install "The Base System" so it is common starting point > for everyone. Going from that you can install whatever you need by > using `pkg` program or the source tree of the all available packages > you can choose from located at `/usr/ports` called "The FreeBSD > Ports". > > > > If all things are pretty easy to set, can you give an authoritative > video link? (in case I fail, I can follow through) I know there are many > youtube tutorials, but I obviously don't know which one is right. > > There is a great book and its called "The FreeBSD Handbook" all > information should be there: > > https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/ > > > Keep in mind that the BSD Unix systems is mostly for the advanced and > aware users. You start from a base system that you can customize to be > a network router, network server, application server, desktop > workstation, dedicated embedded system, etc, but you will have do to > it yourself. There is no "one click to fit everyone" approach in > FreeBSD. > > If you want to try out the BSD from a pendrive with already > preinstalled Xorg + Window Manager you may also want to try NomadBSD > (that is using FreeBSD base): > > https://nomadbsd.org/ > > Virtual Machine seems to be the best way to safely play and try out > various things safely. > > Have fun! :-) > > -- > CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info > I successfully installed oracle virtualbox. Then landed on this site: https://freebsdfoundation.org/freebsd-project/resourcesold/installing-freebsd-with-virtualbox/ then I choose 13.1: https://download.freebsd.org/releases/amd64/amd64/ISO-IMAGES/13.1/ Now, which one should I choose: bootonly.iso or disc.iso or dvd1.iso? --000000000000ebce0b05e9caa84a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 12:16 AM Tom= ek CEDRO <tomek@cedro.info> w= rote:
On Wed, Se= p 28, 2022 at 8:08 PM jian he wrote:
> I asked the question about "freebsd graphic text editor". Th= e question=C2=A0 is stupid.

No stupid questions, just stupid answers :-)

Long story short, FreeBSD is Unix, but this is not a Linux, its a
different operating system with different kernel and applications are
not really one-to-one compatible from a binary standpoint.. however
FreeBSD can emulate Linux ELF binaries and when all other dependencies
are met Linux application binaries can work on FreeBSD.

The biggest difference is in philosophy and approach to changes and
long term maintenance. Linux is an example of "Enforced Changes"^= TM
ideology even when that makes it self-incompatible in short and long
term. Linux also does not conform to standards as much as FreeBSD (and
other BSD) does, usually you will notice things stop working in Linux
after update, there are compatibility problems between different
versions of the same Linux distributions, etc, etc. FreeBSD on the
other hand comes from Unix and is created by people who actually use
it themselves in serious commercial applications that must be
maintainable in a long periods of time.

The difference between Linux and BSD can be easily noticed in the
product that they power: Linux -> Google Android (constant changes,
updates, every Android is different), BSD -> iOS (looks and works the same on different devices, mostly focused on the result of the person
using it).

Some people prefer BSD some people prefer Linux. "Apples and
Oranges"^TM but you should use both to make conscious decision and
know exactly why. Some people even use both Linux and BSD depending on
the task.


> The real questions for me(don't want waste too much time on instal= l) would be:
> I already installed linux, any external pan drive needs to install fre= ebsd?

In the first step just create a VirtualBox machine, install it, create
a snapshot, and see how this works. If anything goes wrong you can
simply rollback a snapshot and you will not loose any real data.


>=C2=A0 Can I install linux and freebsd in the same machine (I think it&= #39;s intel x86 architecture)? If so, can I switch it easily, just use the = shortcut key then switch to another system.

Yes, you can use them on a separate disks, you can use all of them on one d= isk.


>=C2=A0 How long does it take to install freebsd(all settings default, i= gnore internet speed) (I like to first make it work, then try to understand= the system internals).

At first you install "The Base System" so it is common starting p= oint
for everyone. Going from that you can install whatever you need by
using `pkg` program or the source tree of the all available packages
you can choose from located at `/usr/ports` called "The FreeBSD
Ports".


> If all things are pretty easy to set, can you give an authoritative vi= deo link? (in case I fail, I can follow through) I know there are many yout= ube tutorials, but I obviously don't know which one is right.

There is a great book and its called "The FreeBSD Handbook" all information should be there:

https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/


Keep in mind that the BSD Unix systems is mostly for the advanced and
aware users. You start from a base system that you can customize to be
a network router, network server, application server, desktop
workstation, dedicated embedded system, etc, but you will have do to
it yourself. There is no "one click to fit everyone" approach in<= br> FreeBSD.

If you want to try out the BSD from a pendrive with already
preinstalled Xorg + Window Manager you may also want to try NomadBSD
(that is using FreeBSD base):

http= s://nomadbsd.org/

Virtual Machine seems to be the best way to safely play and try out
various things safely.

Have fun! :-)

--
CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info

I successfully installed oracle virtualbox.=

Now, which one should I choose: bootonly.i= so or disc.iso or dvd1.iso?




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