From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 19 06:15:07 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED9082FC0D1 for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 06:15:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c1000658900f.021c0ea40e690bfa523932d198474d75@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49R5G24q2wz439P for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 06:15:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c1000658900f.021c0ea40e690bfa523932d198474d75@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1589868907; x=1592460907; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=sTO0Rwpasy9eAo/IDaqTjz8FXS38ld4otcDTevKHEtg=; b=E3J0x5XJWEvq9u7T6GXi9M2K3JZrOypx8jWjmGPJJNM7G1Y6U7PgzzLbBRcr58MKgrZL5d+2HXrfFz/v6aHd43LHPPyqRlVhzOYiktxOwlsz4dMiEcFEBC7WadhKQ6mGBbvItdGlDhH1tftQbA1GapszuiOv/JgxBv2kjnvlzfY= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC45Mi4xZDRjMTAwMDY1ODkwMGYuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r1.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r1.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.191.1]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 19 May 2020 02:14:56 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r1.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 19 May 2020 02:14:56 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.92.3 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1javWh-000I4X-3L for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 07:14:55 +0100 Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 07:14:54 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD 12.0 end-of-life Message-Id: <20200519071454.6f3361188d0a8f9c8d4b116a@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20200518191731.80bda3b8f1bf183791f27bb6@3dresearch.com> References: <20200217231452.717FA1E820@freefall.freebsd.org> <20200218091959.b0220ac75bcfbbced91a5708@sohara.org> <355B9AC5-84F8-48A3-ABD2-14B43AECC9D7@kreme.com> <20200516204553.a317afe4.freebsd@edvax.de> <2C311DED-DF68-4BEB-B322-4468CB5AB31E@mail.sermon-archive.info> <20200518191731.80bda3b8f1bf183791f27bb6@3dresearch.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49R5G24q2wz439P X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=E3J0x5XJ; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c1000658900f.021c0ea40e690bfa523932d198474d75@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c1000658900f.021c0ea40e690bfa523932d198474d75@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.58 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.88)[-0.884]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[142.0.176.198:from]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c1000658900f.021c0ea40e690bfa523932d198474d75@email-od.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c1000658900f.021c0ea40e690bfa523932d198474d75@email-od.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 06:15:08 -0000 On Mon, 18 May 2020 19:17:31 -0400 Janos Dohanics wrote: > How stable is *-STABLE? The APIs don't change. > The closer it is to *-RELEASE perhaps? It is a development branch, one that is treated with some care but nonetheless a development branch. > In my limited experience (a few dozen instances) since about 4.3 or 4.4, > not once can I remember having to fall back to *-RELEASE. You will usually be safe, heck you will usually be safe running -current but *usually* is important. When you want that usually to be 'nearly always' then -RELEASE is the way to go and know that you only get essential fixes and no surprises. Think of it as a risk choice - -RELEASE as risk free and unchanging as they can manage while still taking care of essentials. Strict policy on allowable changes keeps the risk very low. -STABLE as risk free and unchanging as they can manage while still adding new features. Fixed APIs and everything soaked in -CURRENT before merging keeps the risk down. -CURRENT as risk free as they can manage while changing the wheels on the moving truck, sometimes all at once along with the engine and transmission. Peer review and developer testing keeps the risk surprisingly low - but there was the year and a half it took to stabilise 5.0. > This is not to challenege the expertise of people on this list or the > sound advice of the Handbook on which branch to use for what. May be I > have been just lucky doing end-user stuff (dhcp, cyrus, postfix, apache, > samba, etc.), but *-STABLE has been stable for me. You have been lucky (technically speaking) - but such luck is not unusual. I recall only one spate of trouble for people following -stable that caused a bunch of "This isn't what I call stable it broke ..." with responses carefully explaining what stable means and that it is a development track and things can break - it's just rare enough that many mistake it for a release track. For a while just before 3.0 most laptop owners took to running -current because the APM support had started working there, we were lucky it was fine. > More likely, this reflects the quality of work FreeBSD developers have > been doing. Indeed, FreeBSD developers have always been careful with their tree. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith