From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 00:21:03 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mobile@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F21EA16A400 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 00:21:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rainer@ultra-secure.de) Received: from bsd.ultra-secure.de (bsd.ultra-secure.de [62.146.20.26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6469813C457 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 00:21:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rainer@ultra-secure.de) Received: (qmail 38330 invoked by uid 89); 12 Jun 2007 23:54:20 -0000 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 38318, pid: 38322, t: 2.1118s scanners: attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.88/m:38/d:1474 spam: 3.0.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on bsd.ultra-secure.de X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.200?) (rainer@ultra-secure.de@217.71.83.52) by bsd.ultra-secure.de with (AES128-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 12 Jun 2007 23:54:18 -0000 In-Reply-To: <200706122029.l5CKTQ3n071855@fire.jhs.private> References: <200706091602.l59G2psm042173@fire.jhs.private> <200706122029.l5CKTQ3n071855@fire.jhs.private> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <7AEB6780-A5CB-4D96-9F0E-9179692D6E4B@ultra-secure.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Rainer Duffner Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 01:54:16 +0200 To: "Julian H. Stacey" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Cc: mobile@freebsd.org, ghozzy Subject: Re: FreeBSD-6 fails to install on too many old laptops. X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 00:21:03 -0000 Am 12.06.2007 um 22:29 schrieb Julian H. Stacey: > FreeBSD has progressively broken support for 5 of my older laptops. > One needs massive time reading manuals etc, only then to fail anyway, > getting beyond 4.11. (Only 1 modern here takes 6.2). I can confirm this for my parents' (formerly owned by my brother) Mitac Mi-Note 6020. It works with 4.10, but wouldn't boot 5 or 6 or even the 7-snapshot I once tried. I may try with the June snapshots (but how do you backup a computer whose only network connection is an 11MBit wireless card?). This is a Celeron 366 with 320 or so MB RAM. It just panics during probing. The reason I didn't report this is that a) it currently works (running StarOffice 7 on KDE) b) it's physically so broken (all hinges are so hard to open/close that they are broken out of the case on all sides - the thing is sitting in a wooden frame that my father built ;-) c) I also run FreeBSD on servers. I'd rather like developers to spend their limited time on getting it to work better on the latest server- hardware and on newer laptops (which are arriving every quarter) > > 4.11 is nominally dead, yet on many older laptops is all that Works. Personally, I suspect really bad ACPI-implementations as the reason for the kernel-panics I get (no success with safe-mode, ACPI or no ACPI). And 4.x _is_ dead. Not only nominally, but really. No fixes. Ports don't build. End of game. RIP. (I've got a server with 4.11 in a colo 500 km away that is waiting for a 'decision') > Newcomers may give up after 6.2 & dump FreeBSD, not knowing to use > 4.11 > with working { ATA access, Geom / FDISK, PCMCIA (ether & cdrom), > PLIP }. > Newcomers today will either have one of those 600 Euro el-cheapo laptops from one of the big electronic-supermarket-chains, or will have had the sense to buy at least a Pentium3-Mobile-class system on ebay (can be had very cheaply, usually works like built for FreeBSD). The other old laptop I own (a Dell Inspiron 4000, Celeron 800 with 512 MB RAM) runs 6.x almost as fast as my Pentium-M 1.6 with 1GB RAM. So to conclude: I'm all for supporting slow hardware (WRAP, Soekris - you name it) - but when we talk about hardware that was "new" seven or more years ago (and with most problems probably caused by BIOS- bugs), I can also support drawing a final stroke. cheers, Rainer -- Rainer Duffner CISSP, LPI, MCSE rainer@ultra-secure.de