Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 12:47:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com> To: Stephen McKay <mckay@thehub.com.au> Cc: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Islam (was: Religions (was Re: helping victims of terror)) Message-ID: <3BD32635.EC54F003@mindspring.com> References: <1003617187.3bd1fba3d31ff@webmail.neomedia.it> <1003617187.3bd1fba3d31ff@webmail.neomedia.it> <4.3.2.7.2.20011020213927.048a1780@localhost> <200110211547.f9LFlIB27704@dungeon.home>
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Stephen McKay wrote: > >Oh? And what "atrocities" have Jews "contined to commit" in the name > >of their religion? My first candidate for atrocity in answer to this was "continuing failure to convert to Islam"... > Well, for a start, the Israeli Government's policy of assassinating > Palestinians it doesn't like. I really can't understand how their > politicians can get up on TV and complain about Palestinian terrorism > as if they don't use exactly the same methods themselves. > > Or are you suggesting they do this purely secularly, without religious > connotations? That's a subtle point in these times. After the celebrations in the streets of the West bank following the events of September 11th, I think you will find this a hard sell. Before September 11th, it was possible to have sympathy for these people; now it is no longer possible. Looking at the Israeli/Palestinian situation from outside, it's really hard to understand what it is the Palestinians hope to achieve. It's clear they want self rule. I don't think anyone objects to that -- the problem is _where_ they want it: in land lost to them in war. Not even the "most noble" of cultures imaginable has historically been willing to return the spoils of war, particularly to when it is the aggressor nation who lost. The U.S. wasn't interfering with Afghani self rule, until very recently, even though they were implementing the policies of historical revisionism, destruction of women's sufferage, denial of education to women (15% of Afghani women are literate, as opposed to 47% of Afghani men), and other acts which the general U.S. population finds incredibly oppressive of their own people. In other words, they have an oppressive regime which the U.S. nonetheless recognized their right to have. If the complaint is that the Israelis punish the group when an individual transgresses... I completely understand that policy: the U.S. might have been able to avoid the September 11th events, had it adopted a similar policy earlier. It's the policy used in schools an military units, to this day, to get peers to police the members of their peer group themselves. If the complaint is that they react to stone-throwing by children with deadly force... I completely understand that policy, too: there are plenty of examples from U.S. history, where someone uses a low level of force to trigger a chase that results in an ambush. If you know a veteran of the Vietnam conflict, ask them about V.C. tactics utilizing children as weapons delivery systems or triggers for provoked ambushes. I think most people in the West see the correct reaction to Palestinians is to say "you lost; get over it, quit whining, and go on with your lives; if you don't like it, as Israeli citizens, you get to elect representatives, so elect people who will do what you want". -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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