From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sun Sep 20 17:55:56 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E526D3E8EC1 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 2020 17:55:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qv1-xf30.google.com (mail-qv1-xf30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f30]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BvZxS1fhDz3ZqW for ; Sun, 20 Sep 2020 17:55:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qv1-xf30.google.com with SMTP id f11so6169688qvw.3 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 2020 10:55:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2P1lxD/hEHg13QgmMpZ6o2J3EyCLVHsIcjEgsLRQ3OY=; b=SXOHhRLfVvfuFyFkmo8xwnkeM68GsX0+NgmQlbRmq+Aw2Lzui79dbpJAxl9EI7foqy 2bSmIRslSDTZza+P3Ho3jSFoQhp0X4HaDX+fZRWgAmt+tXk4ycyp9BQ5KxhgXNG/dWQk n1s2bU2v4DzxCNE3QQGmCgliQkzQSOpblU7xoYZMb8MYjAZyj2WQUSdEyhba2+QmgISC GZI6uciHHhuVGjXcBsCuTwTkmDNpTzgGSlLfzl9e1KBmpuNO1rS8cSFUFWBe5ryJK3bZ Sub/34hZzjl0345cO3BpioaUotQnAeaWC/7yPTQwvgEpWd6ve7vs/uvyQJagCl2pXILu QNHw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533SW7D5DSoXvbBrT0s6J180XFwB/+CNKrebBkBMS1GGgwa5O0Sy AvG2+8Z/8N6j6thOrMg20+N9xtd3sHUz66H235V8hT8Qr91+bFP6 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxqtJrm3AV9UEPZGmQaDPksApRYBSDmY2kS8M30uL/G+Dg3J2XQTWK9Ro4I8hXyFP0UKOUGD/b8A+EnIhqgfRA= X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4a6b:: with SMTP id cn11mr27573572qvb.53.1600624555058; Sun, 20 Sep 2020 10:55:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202009201400.08KE0PBd028190@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> <13a965d9-ef02-f876-dd6c-aa872b66d114@nomadlogic.org> In-Reply-To: <13a965d9-ef02-f876-dd6c-aa872b66d114@nomadlogic.org> From: Warner Losh Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 11:55:44 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Plans for git To: Pete Wright Cc: FreeBSD Current X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BvZxS1fhDz3ZqW X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.97 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[FreeBSD-current]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.05)[-1.050]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::f30:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.925]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 17:55:57 -0000 On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:41 AM Pete Wright wrote: > > >> making quarterly reports about this for almost a years as well. We put > out > >> calls for people to help with the efforts about the same time. We have > >> tried at every step of the way to be open and honest that this was > going to > >> happen. > > All developer centric communications.... > > I would argue that quarterly reports are actually one of the few methods > of getting accurate information about the state of the project as a > non-insider. i've been following the progress of this work via the > quarterly status reports for years now, and as someone who is merely a > freebsd operator felt like i was more or less kept up to date on this > eventuality. > Plus the git list also gave status updates and it was public and mentioned in the reports. > honestly there has to be *some* responsibility of operators to at least > make an effort to keep up to date on the status of the various efforts > in such a large project. and as an outsider the idea that comms can > only happen on the mailing list isn't the greatest - how am i to know > that the idea of one person on the ML carries more weight than another, > or one persons opinion is the "official" stated opinion of the core group? > And to be honest, we'd planned on a final PR push once we had a confirmed date with enough lead time for people to adjust. Be all that as it may, I've finished up the first of a series of videos. This one talks about the fundamental differences between the two in 4 minutes. Future videos will delve into details of how it affects different segments of our community: users, developers, integrators, etc. https://youtu.be/Lx9lKr_M-DI if you want to take a look. The next one will be one on why (though it largely rehashes this thread and the blog post I made, again in about 4 minutes). Warner