From nobody Mon Sep 16 13:57:06 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4X6mgm0GK6z5W4Vp for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2024 13:57:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kim@westryn.net) Received: from mail.westryn.net (mail.westryn.net [199.48.135.251]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4X6mgl5VQWz3yv3 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2024 13:57:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kim@westryn.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from smtpclient.apple (225x169.ouraynet.com [204.16.225.169]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.westryn.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 95264FFFFE0; Mon, 16 Sep 2024 07:57:17 -0600 (MDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=westryn.net; s=westrynnet; t=1726495037; bh=pntHtNfpxve8hv4RYMRqA17JMjzMDpPc52JslgYOiZw=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=IBxPAznEtYb1TCbu53wKuckNlzUEWNqwg4wcL5gHKma6lbhBf8OKpijOB7h1C8W9z tqsno4zcZHDehmDOy+8VvkI2MXBZDx8v2wp2BEnUxW2mx1FSOZMzD0D2X2hJz82pjT g6FImc5KiHsJhp/1eAfqatEBjvJ3QM1+YE9mSjlimrNOsF58HFZ3wg4f1u1v/csAMa 6+qUwszq705aNdid56guyxcrfyc/Vgi8xndCin0/4F1g/r06p3FHVIxFBNWYhXFMvV UCUpSAE6YF0htoGDX7xuavOCKZ2x4ghbKOu6hbPv3nRTOefPqj1lfM3zn6BhiDcAAY 1KjPQYwnKfttQ== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3776.700.51\)) Subject: Re: It's not Rust, it's FreeBSD (and LLVM) From: Kim Shrier In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2024 07:57:06 -0600 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <202409031532.483FW0If007252@critter.freebsd.dk> <908e7c45fbcea4634427b8d065bb2f20@Leidinger.net> <202409081302.488D2UvB069580@critter.freebsd.dk> To: Peter 'PMc' Much X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3776.700.51) X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36236, ipnet:199.48.132.0/22, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4X6mgl5VQWz3yv3 > On Sep 16, 2024, at 5:59=E2=80=AFAM, Peter 'PMc' Much = wrote: >=20 > On 2024-09-08, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >=20 >>>> The source tree became our citadel: "FreeBSD is src". If something >>>> was not in src, it was not FreeBSD. >>>=20 >>> We are way past that too, FreeBSD is src+ports+docs(+community). >>=20 >> Nope. >>=20 >> The only reason the Rust advocates need to bring this up is = /precisely/ >> because that is not the case. >>=20 >> If it were, they would just have added ports. >>=20 >>> In your world. And in the world of some other people. But there are = a=20 >>> lot of worlds where this is not true. I have systems which are = updated=20 >>> from src, and use only packages which are build locally. >>=20 >> Beware of selection bias. >>=20 >> "Somebody who compiles from src" is almost the literal definition of = "committer". >=20 >=20 > WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING ??? >=20 > AFAIK everybody who needs patches is oblidged to recompile from > source. And I don't get kerberos to work without my patches, I dont > get netgraph to work without my patches, I don't get ipfw to work > without my patches. > And AFAIK committers are people who write NEW software. I am not > interested in that, I only need to make the existing software > actually work as intended for my site. I have stayed out of this conversation so far but I agree with Peter. I compile all my kernels and ports from source. I make local patches when needed. And while I have had some of my patshes accepted=20 into the FreeBSD source, I am not a committer. I have dabbled with rust, several times and I don=E2=80=99t like it. It = reminds me too much of C++ and I have never liked that language. These languages appear to introduce too much complexity and their runtime libraries change too much over time. If I were to consider introducing a new language into the FreeBSD source tree, it would be V but I know that that language is still too early in its development to seriously consider using it=E2=80=A6 yet. I have high hopes for it. So consider this a NO vote on rust. Kim Shrier ------------------- C++ is an off-by-one error