From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 21 20:37:27 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D60D16A468 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 20:37:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gore_jarold@yahoo.com) Received: from web63004.mail.re1.yahoo.com (web63004.mail.re1.yahoo.com [69.147.96.215]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C50F313C45D for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 20:37:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gore_jarold@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 4865 invoked by uid 60001); 21 May 2007 20:37:26 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=gbJFQ8rcTs2A2F9k7fe0YxOcvYE5mEOomrpEhdB40Tqsx6eKiy4KyytYg8t3000HsaLbPJsDibeYRzlpLdY/c4Lz9pWJf+uZ+BursY78DGvtRA6mg3OZ1lUKZDKT0goU7aUTeGfk7sN3/kCTPmbPUZN/ZobIflXN+T6CL6pSDaI=; X-YMail-OSG: IzfD_y4VM1m_AL09KoqKoXejWQKifWxS65TMEiD30xkhT9qF47FsNxQQBVxnjzYHfOIA2_DEgQPPuZuf4A4cSLPDkUIgbfnyGIDX.XbatuoML6ItjOqpowWKBQVDoVpH Received: from [24.118.228.153] by web63004.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 21 May 2007 13:37:25 PDT Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 13:37:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Gore Jarold To: Kris Kennaway In-Reply-To: <20070521193405.GA80086@xor.obsecurity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <38676.4493.qm@web63004.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, Brooks Davis Subject: Re: How to report bugs (Re: VERY frustrated with FreeBSD/UFS stability - please help or comment...) X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 20:37:27 -0000 --- Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Mon, May 21, 2007 at 12:16:33PM -0700, Gore > Jarold wrote: > > > > > a) am I really the only person in the world > that > > > moves > > > > around millions of inodes throughout the day ? > Am > > > I > > > > the only person in the world that has ever > filled > > > up a > > > > snapshotted FS (or a quota'd FS, for that > matter) > > > ? (snip) > You are certainly not the only persion who operates > on millions of > inodes, but it is disingenuous to suggest that this > is either a > "mainstream" or "simple" workload. Also, I > personally know of several > people who do this without apparent problem, so that > is further > evidence that whatever problems you are seeing are > something specific > to your workload or configuration, or you are just > unlucky. Ok. In my defense, I have to say that as a non-developer, end user, it's hard to watch people installing ZFS on FreeBSD and running with journaling and newfs'ing raw disk with 7.0-current, etc., and not feel like I am an extremely pedestrian use case. I had no idea I was so cutting edge :) > The larger issue here is that apparently you have > been suffering in > silence for many years with your various > frustrations and they have > finally exploded into this email. This is really a > poor way to > approach the goal of getting your problems solved: > it is fundamentally > a failure of your expectations to think that without > adequately > reporting your bugs that they will somehow get > fixed. I need to clarify and respond to this ... my point was that every release since 5.0 has had some new and interesting instability in this regard. Every time a new release comes out, it seems to be "fixed", only to reveal some other new and interesting instability. So, no, I have not silently suffered with _any one_ particular problem - they never seem to last more than one release or two. It is only now, however, that I have come to realize that I am in the same spot (overall) today as I was in early 2004. The details are slightly different, but the end result is that my rsyncs and cps and rms are too much for FreeBSD, and have been for 3 years now. So what I am saying is, individual causes of instability (seem to) come and go, but I am not any better of today than I was with 5.0. I have just realized this, and that is why I make my frustration known today. > Without these two things there is really very little > that a developer > can do to try and guess what might possibly be > happening on your > system. However, it appears that we might now be > making some > progress: > > > ssh user@host rm -rf backup.2 > > ssh user@host mv backup.1 backup.2 > > ssh user@host cp -al backup.0 backup.1 > > rsync /files user@host:/backup.0 > > > > The /files in question range from .2 to 2.2 > million > > files, all told. This means that when this script > > runs, it first either deletes OR unlinks up to 2 > > million items. Then it does a (presumably) zero > cost > > move operation. Then it does a hard-link-creating > cp > > of the same (up to 2 million) items. > > Please provide additional details of how the > filesystems in question > are configured, your kernel configuration, hardware > configuration, and > the debugging data referred to in 2) above. I will collect all of this and submit it the next time the system crashes... ____________________________________________________________________________________ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/