Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:34:07 -0500 From: Brian T.Schellenberger <bts@babbleon.org> To: Kris Kennaway <kris@FreeBSD.ORG>, Bob Giesen <BobGiesen@earthlink.net> Cc: Kris Kennaway <kris@obsecurity.org>, "Douglas R. Spindler" <spindler@dnai.com>, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A question from a convert from Windows to FreeBSD Message-ID: <20020123033407.5C9E63EF9@i8k.babbleon.org> In-Reply-To: <20020122161741.A7573@citusc17.usc.edu> References: <0ffe01c1a371$661d1b20$6600640a@attbi.com> <007b01c1a381$93765900$328dfea9@pegasus> <20020122161741.A7573@citusc17.usc.edu>
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I think that FreeBSD installation is quite straightforward if you start out
by ordering the CD set. To compare an install of FreeBSD straight over the
network to a CD-based install of Windows is preposterous; plus, an install of
Windows is not that easy--I've had more failures than than with FreeBSD.
To compare on install of FreeBSD to a PRE-installed Windows (all most folks
ever see of Windows) is like cutting off one runner's legs and then
complaining that he should be doing more to keep up . . .
And of course the worse part is the slice/fdisk stuff, but if you just give
the whole disk over, it's easy, and Windows fdisk is a lot harder to work
with than FreeBSD's and provides even less assistance.
So I don't think there's any apples-to-apples comparison by which FreeBSD
comes out worse off . . . at least not in my experience.
On Tuesday 22 January 2002 07:17 pm, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 02:15:33PM -0600, Bob Giesen wrote:
> > > > Here's my question, why do you guys make converting so difficult?
> > >
> > > That's a very subjective question, wouldn't you say?
> >
> > Not very, no. I've been a computer junkie for 20 years (well, pretty
> > soon -- I got my first one in Feb., 1981), have made a living at UNIX
> > system administration, vocally advocate FreeBSD to any who will listen --
> > yet it is obvious to me why a recent convert from the dark side (a.k.a.
> > micro$haft) would consider FreeBSD to be difficult to install.
> > Objectively speaking (and I'm sure that it could be quantified in terms
> > of time and keystrokes), there is not much of a comparison when it comes
> > to ease of installation -- which is a major reason that FreeBSD
> > installations number in the thousands, rather than millions.
>
> No, it is subjective, because for example when I first transferred to
> FreeBSD a number of years ago I found the instructions very
> straightforward. The fact that other people find them more confusing
> is what makes it subjective, by definition.
>
> If we're comparing FreeBSD installations with Windows installations, I
> spent the entire weekend (literally!) last week trying to install
> Win98 on my K6-2/550 with quite standard hardware. Win98 would boot
> from CD but refuse to load the ATAPI drivers to read the rest of the
> CD; the Promise IDE controller wasn't detected out of the box, so I
> had to transfer my HDs to the motherboard controllers in order to
> install onto them once I got the CD media to work; the motherboard
> needed me to download 4 drivers in order for it to work without
> crashing; and my graphics card (Matrox dual-head G400) didn't work out
> of the box, and still causes Windows 98 to BSOD at startup every 2 out
> of 3 startups no matter what driver magic I've tried. Then Windows
> Update suggested a new driver for my intel fxp ethernet card which
> totally bodged it up, and I had to do major system file surgery to
> recover a working driver and stop it from continually trying to
> install the broken one. I had to disable power management because the
> default settings cause the system to hang when it tries to suspend.
> Then I found last night that the FAT16 partition I created using Win98
> FDISK was created right in the middle of my UFS partition which was
> already on the disk.
>
> If I didn't have such expertise with Windows administration there is
> no way in hell I'd have been able to get this thing running. I can
> hardly think of more things which could have gone wrong with the
> installation to have made it more difficult.
>
> By contrast, FreeBSD installed and runs on the same system without a
> single hitch.
>
> > This is why:
> > > Since FreeBSD is a community supported project...
> >
> > If unsophisticated users could easily install FreeBSD and a free
> > office app (such as StarOffice or KDE) that would operate on all those
> > m$office files in circulation, I think you'd see a lot more home offices
> > with FreeBSD as the system of choice. After all, how many people
> > wouldn't love to get something for free that will do all they really need
> > of the topheavy m$office apps?
> >
> > [snip]
>
> These are all pretty good statements, but unless someone (you?) has
> time to sit down and make these improvements they won't happen.
> That's how it works around here, of course..
>
> Kris
--
Brian T. Schellenberger . . . . . . . bts@wnt.sas.com (work)
Brian, the man from Babble-On . . . . bts@babbleon.org (personal)
http://www.babbleon.org
-------> Free Dmitry Sklyarov! (let him go home) <-----------
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