From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Oct 20 22:28:37 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0073DA1A5F2 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:28:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bdrewery@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206c::16:87]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6DC4B95; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:28:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bdrewery@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail.xzibition.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF9F81AE6; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:28:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bdrewery@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail.xzibition.com (localhost [172.31.3.2]) by mail.xzibition.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D9F16601; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:28:36 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.xzibition.com Received: from mail.xzibition.com ([172.31.3.2]) by mail.xzibition.com (mail.xzibition.com [172.31.3.2]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with LMTP id zYdRgXbnno0u; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:28:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Retiring in-tree GDB DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.9.2 mail.xzibition.com 03F26165FC To: Slawa Olhovchenkov References: <2678091.es0AGJQ0Ou@ralph.baldwin.cx> <5626B15C.4080408@FreeBSD.org> <20151020215008.GH42243@zxy.spb.ru> <5626BCB6.3000202@FreeBSD.org> <20151020222720.GA6469@zxy.spb.ru> Cc: John Baldwin , 'freebsd-arch' From: Bryan Drewery Openpgp: id=F9173CB2C3AAEA7A5C8A1F0935D771BB6E4697CF; url=http://www.shatow.net/bryan/bryan2.asc Organization: FreeBSD Message-ID: <5626C012.5050009@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 15:28:34 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20151020222720.GA6469@zxy.spb.ru> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="FgNjvc0bjqHMEqoXPXkSWEtvPFKdBnDrP" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:28:37 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --FgNjvc0bjqHMEqoXPXkSWEtvPFKdBnDrP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 10/20/2015 3:27 PM, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote: > On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 03:14:14PM -0700, Bryan Drewery wrote: >=20 >> On 10/20/2015 2:50 PM, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote: >>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 02:25:48PM -0700, Bryan Drewery wrote: >>> >>>> On 10/20/2015 1:36 PM, John Baldwin wrote: >>>>> However, I would like to propose that we retire the in-tree GDB for= some of >>>>> our platforms (namely x86) for 11. In particular, I think we shoul= d default >>>> >>>> Disabling/removing gdb. Definitely. It is unusable in many cases and= the >>>> working gdb is just a 'pkg install' away. >>>> >>>>> to enabling lldb and disabling gdb for platforms that meet the foll= owing >>>> >>>> Why should we include lldb in the base system? It is not needed to b= uild >>>> or use the system and we can easily provide one from packages. >>>> >>>> Arguments about providing a default working system don't work here f= or >>>> me as we don't provide perl, python, valgrind, vim, emacs, X11, etc.= We >>>> can provide lldb and gdb on the default DVD though. >>>> >>>> If we are actually going to "package base" in 11, we should not be >>>> adding new things into base that can easily live in ports. Yes, I kn= ow >>>> lldb is already there but I don't think it should be. >>>> >>>> Can the same be said for tools such as truss, ktrace or nvi? Sure. T= he >>>> discussion is really "what packages should be installed by default".= >>>> The answer should be "what all, or most, users _need_" Do most users= >>>> need a debugger? I don't think so. >>> >>> When you need debuger you may don't have way to install it. >>> >> >> How did you get a system? >> >> DVD? 'pkg add /mnt/cd/packages/gdb.txz' >> Network? 'pkg install gdb' >> >> Fetching the packages to a USB drive from another system works too usi= ng >> 'pkg fetch -o'. >=20 > You talk about healty system. > System may be semi-broken and need some assistance to r/w mount, for > example. >=20 How does that relate to gdb? I can only read your example as suggesting we need a /rescue/gdb too. --=20 Regards, Bryan Drewery --FgNjvc0bjqHMEqoXPXkSWEtvPFKdBnDrP Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJWJsASAAoJEDXXcbtuRpfPORUH/icLB41GrIrjF68irCNwkmFQ CDQSmlmP++3FuhwgghvftrjeHjq8PQiC0Tg8FuRbW8TVcY++iPsr7JO2cCv3ssTJ w1aBAV1t6MYzwyLCh8tKbt6wIkx3bzvTV9aNXMFbmCAR9cP163mtyJQpc2Num37D FowUxgPq1kPLfiY33+VwxcNvEEjPtu9m1OqB0ep0HfIpvriiVGkfGFh33c92w2w7 6gVFkO/ibPp4VOOrzsrmfmAbC72FIx48poZQjEAhRmLrUsGsKLZdFJcS2eu/lqTY hMNi9F2L/EycqQgGB6qNLlijScnIGVoXAK578F4wBshouS9noI5rGpWDRAE0zCI= =n/vh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --FgNjvc0bjqHMEqoXPXkSWEtvPFKdBnDrP--