Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 16:34:07 -0600 From: Drew Wiggins <drew@multinet-media.com> To: FreeBSD Bob <fbsdbob@weedcon1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "easy installation"!!!!! yeah right Message-ID: <381CC3DF.1D1B398D@multinet-media.com> References: <199910311705.MAA25791@weedcon1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------5FD9097E2299F4EDC6298209
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Some interesting and very valid points. I think we are looking at things
from different standpoints, but share some of the same goals.
I like the idea of restructuring the learning approach. For most Unix
users,
the FMs, online information and faqs, etc are sufficient ( and for someone
who
is really interested in picking this stuff up, too ). But for today's
typical newbie
user we do need a more structured suggestion than "RTFM. Which one...? All
of them." Maybe we can implement a reward-based system to keep them
motivated. Have you ever seen someone study for an MCSE or CCIE exam?
I think maybe creating a certification program might help in a several ways.
1) Keeps the user motivated
2) Provide staged learning objectives
3) Give direction and structure to an otherwise "learn whatever you can
whenever you can" approach.
4) A reasonably priced exam could help the project financially.
Now, to make this thing work, we would have to deem it as a "prestigious,
but not impossible" development testing program. At least, we could expect
a large group of users who fail the tests but still use the OS because they
did
learn something, like the OS, and will continue to learn through it's use
( bypassed the whole newbie stage ). At most, we have a large group of
users who could easily step into any SA postition with ease and comfort, or
who have the capability to contribute to the project. Not to mention the fact
that they would be complete FreeBSD advocacy campaigners, seeing as how
that's what they're now certified in. ( it's an ego thing, everyone does it.
)
Some of the changes you are suggesting, require $$$. I know that there
are
several of us that would volunteer these services, but the whole PR thing
kinda
requires it. So we have one of two choices. We could make FreeBSD, $$$BSD
and go against the Berkley tradition. Or a few of us can get together and
begin
promoting the helloutta it. The problem with the first is that it's not
going to
happen. The problem with the second is that the majority the people we are
going to be publicizing to are going to be the same frustrated enduser Joe
who
started this message thread. And I don't blame them for being frustrated. I
just
respond differently. But if there's anything worse than no publicity it's
bad
publicity. So then we can talk about changing utilities to make them more
"Joe-friendly." Making a more universally compatible install. More support
for
various hardware with pre-built drivers. In essence, you're asking for a lot
more
than just a new marketing approach.
Drew
P.S. The biggest problem with today's users is that they want to race before
they
can even drive. I think a drivers license is a prerequisite for entering a
Bondurant
course. Point taken, though.
FreeBSD Bob wrote:
> > I've been debating whether or not to post to this legacy thread.
> > But I figure, what the heck...I'll add my 2 cents to the pot and
> > maybe someone can cash in on a car or boat or something.
>
> Well, IMHO, the discussion is a good way to feel out the common wisdom.
> So, yer zwei pfennigs is welcome.
>
> .....
>
> > ..... If it was easy
> > then everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it good.
> > ( or maybe that's just me being a control-freak again ).
>
> Generally agreed, but, for the sake of discussion, we have to consider
> the future. There will come a point in time, if FreeBSD is going to
> survive with reasonable PR, userbase, generic utility, etc., that it
> will have to consider joe enduser running the home box on cablenet.
> Joe user is not the professional Berserkeley type, nor the AT&T suits.
> But, he is the guy fed up with Gatesware, and has heard a little or
> a lot of buzz about this thing *nix (mostly via Penguin buzz) down
> at the coffeeshop or the bookstore. Now, if we, as Berserkely types
> want to compete in that market, for joe user, then we have to present
> ourselves a little better, or perhaps differently, than we would to
> the longhair bearded sandal crew that I grew up in. The sandal crew
> is gonna get it done, one way or the other. So, that's a null issue.
> But, I sense, from reading 500 emails a day, on the list (whew!),
> that there is a need for something less sandal crew, and a little more
> geard towards garnering our share of the Penguins-to-be. We can't
> expect to flesh out our flock by just catching the discontented
> Penguins. Although there is merit for using the Penguin school for
> our Basic Training, I think we should approach it more directly than
> that. Folks, the budding *nix community has gotten bigger than just
> the Berserkeley sandal crowd and the geek compsci majors. If we fail
> to accommodate the joe endusers, then we are missing the boat in a
> big way.
>
> How do we do that? Good question, but, there are some serious things
> that should be considered, based upon what I am gleaning from all the
> newsfeeds regarding *nix, as well as our own lists.
>
> 1. We do need some kind of better training algorithm for the newbie
> types that are not the professionals with years of experience,
> or the compsci majors.
>
> 2. We do need some serious on-line training materials, perhaps like
> some of the OSU courses, or that kind of thing, presented in a way
> that will immediately catch the incoming newbie, and guide them
> along.
>
> 3. We do need some kind of hands-one test drive machine, either via
> the website, OR, via something as watered down as a Training Wheels
> version of the system that comes up out of a dos shell. Such a
> version could be used for evaluation, for training, and for a
> one-upsmanship PR coup.
>
> The above is only IMHO, and we all know everyone is entitled to one
> IMHO, just like they are entitled to one arse. But, I do sense
> we can't remain the cloistered Berserkeley sandal crew, forever.
>
> > Is RTFM a prerequisite for new UNIX users? If they want to
> > get anything out of me it is, and I'm generally a nice guy. I think
> > most people feel the same way.
>
> RTFM is always important. But, I sense our FM's are needing some
> clarity. They are quite good for the professional, and most every
> tidbit is there, somewhere, but, sometimes it can be difficult to
> find.
>
> > If you've been monkey-trained to point and click, and you
> > are looking for a starting place, then master what you know: learn
> > dos inside and out, network functions, telnet, FTP, hosts, lmhosts,
> > establish a general knowledge of networking, write some batch files,
> > mess around with autoexec.bat and config.sys, learn a programming
> > language ( VB does not count ). It will make the transition a lot
> > easier. Then pickup a shell account and read a book on dos->unix
> > command translations. There are probably more similarities than
> > you imagine.
>
> The problem is that joe enduser does not come from a dos background,
> anymore, so that method of training is gone.
>
> He can't just pick up a shell account anymore, because they are
> harder and harder to find with everything becoming webbized.
> He needs the account on his own hardware, for even the most basic
> training.
>
> Forget anything dos... dos does not exist anymore. You have to start
> WITH *nix directly. Now, the problem is getting joe enduser there,
> directly.
>
> > Will a try-out version of FBSD work...who knows? If it helps
> > build better users, then I'm all for it. If it creates a overpopulated
> > group of quiters who whine and moan, then I think I could do w/o.
> > IMHO, I think it may provide people who think they are interested
> > a chance to make a better decision without us all having to listen to
> > them and ourselves discussing what we've all heard a million times
> > ( as I know this is not new information, so hold the hot stuff ).
>
> Whiners go elsewhere. Serious joe endusers are most welcome to sign
> on board. Perhaps it is time to finalize discussions, and take some
> proactive tack (to borrow buzzwords).
>
> > Last but not least, let's make a quick comparison. Let's say
> > you just bought a brand new stick-shift Corvette. Then decided
> > that you didn't want to deal with having to learn how to drive a
> > car with a manual transmission. Would you complain to the
> > manufacturers, that they made the car too difficult to drive?
> > Or would you opt to drive another car, that's more suited to your
> > driving preferences? Just a thought.
>
> Interesting aside with the auto bits. If you buy a hot rod, and
> you want to race with the bigboyz, you have to go through something
> like Bondurant's racing school, or that sort of thing, for hands-on
> training, before they even let you out with the 'vette.
>
> Sadly, with *nix, they shovel you out the door onto the track, and
> say crash first, and then ask for help, but first RTFM. Sadly, there
> aren't many Formula 1 or CART racing manuals to read.
>
> I still stand by my contention that we need something for the
> joe enduser crowd, rather than rely on Penguin Basic Training,
> (although that method seems to work, too).
>
> Bob
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
--------------5FD9097E2299F4EDC6298209
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;
name="drew.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Drew Wiggins
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename="drew.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:Wiggins;John
tel;cell:(806) 786-2764
tel;fax:(806) 472-0858
tel;home:(806) 786-2764
tel;work:(806) 762-3739
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
url:http://www.MultiNet-Media.com/
org:MultiNetMedia;Operations
version:2.1
email;internet:drew@multinet-media.com
title:IT Director
adr;quoted-printable:;;1316 27th Street=0D=0A;Lubbock;TX ;79405;USA
x-mozilla-cpt:;-23200
fn:Drew Wiggins
end:vcard
--------------5FD9097E2299F4EDC6298209--
To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?381CC3DF.1D1B398D>