From owner-svn-src-all@freebsd.org Sun May 27 22:39:17 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96BEDEEF27F for ; Sun, 27 May 2018 22:39:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sobomax@sippysoft.com) Received: from mail-ot0-x22c.google.com (mail-ot0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1887371C04 for ; Sun, 27 May 2018 22:39:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sobomax@sippysoft.com) Received: by mail-ot0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id l13-v6so11631012otk.9 for ; Sun, 27 May 2018 15:39:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sippysoft-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=cca2LnFEdcfhb084kwodKW+DfCOQ00zUsKjvCVhyaoI=; b=0Edp3Pia2EH3KFzXedUW3Rra46JTRfsfn2lfU78vpadtbgM2gPkjQwKGwV8PqBH4YK h9IFML9v8eUGxl4f8KXt+iv/6jclxHu7ve4n0rKxe6ow4hDw4IA+de215VzkAkbtGWNw 5pDTTXIt+esPqn1lGjTIzqy+rG0DOCO90f0HS3VuKKdp2Ir447uHI+Y848fSCMJkCvMs HeXRbRbgvwzMHydrUFRqMdFsQctLv7WijBeq3/uqzN+7VqhttSGmFXfdzQRDlObP8TMi pQWKCUG1uFWXxaIZdFx7JvqaNXXpome/+1ExY7aBN0CkBIAVuKPV0GlM1VC/29cTmfx6 4LLw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=cca2LnFEdcfhb084kwodKW+DfCOQ00zUsKjvCVhyaoI=; b=OIUx8BEXAyn+5BAzCBBCSNXjYCggZNCEe9DC0NYGhEnNe9+lBT4/Xg4vZcsPLQUaow ErqXunNclZUNoQHNhzkiikG4YJWfr5WqOK8Gf3//JVup0ap8JnUtjvWP4inVoJHvXMsG G0lFwAsr1p1E25Ys+siGvzVPpQRXhxCkazF0b0EfMGX5ckAWY7i1mezFlAP+f+LEp5h9 eze2lj3w6LdyIYESHbJ/67VOJbdvwcx825lF1CBWSzJHi9Gi2LzTRd/GFs6ymC9/kJQ5 vbqWz6rIQmZJKdOdPB3jHwpMdi9CgjwQu4aRIP5QEY7U7YzwvpXLz9LBUdmsKn/78xZG +4Gg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPwfhQf4ocpjb5Sq/pHZ5BWTAGzGeR5pPq4IXfyiaiqSVaKC9mDak 1BJ9bCA7pfHL/O80eQevdNMesFxZ+tJpIRbd7dnMvyAB X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKIcwnKMBXg0i8xm8yY+iZYe8Tw7oKZlYO1CP1lYqAKQjEwn/ju8MERKP9eVk8GpauJ2A/+u87gXVRscpkw9VFM= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:4343:: with SMTP id y3-v6mr5001035oti.362.1527460756211; Sun, 27 May 2018 15:39:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201805232218.w4NMIxMA067892@slippy.cwsent.com> <18a87d6d-14af-ef9d-80ff-403039e36692@cs.duke.edu> <20180525003949.GA710@lonesome.com> <05C5BD86-70D0-4B02-AC29-36E68B3602AE@FreeBSD.org> <1A6567CD-5BE8-4E80-A262-00ADB75CF35A@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: From: Maxim Sobolev Date: Sun, 27 May 2018 15:39:04 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deorbiting i386 To: David Chisnall Cc: Mark Linimon , Matthew Macy , Andrew Gallatin , Pedro Giffuni , Cy Schubert , Brooks Davis , Eugene Grosbein , Stefan Esser , "rgrimes@freebsd.org" , Gleb Smirnoff , Sean Bruno , "svn-src-head@freebsd.org" , "svn-src-all@freebsd.org" , "src-committers@freebsd.org" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 28 May 2018 02:12:26 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.26 X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 May 2018 22:39:17 -0000 P.S.. Another interesting thing to consider is that original Intel patents on i386 are going to expire sooner or later. Give it some time and we might see completely open source i386 IPs one day, free for anyone to grab and use. By today's standards i386 is rather trivial platform with many independent commercial implementations already done by compact well focused teams (cyrix, transmeta etc). -Max On Sun, May 27, 2018, 3:15 PM Maxim Sobolev wrote: > Well, strip extra 32 bits, use slower memory and busses (extra decoding > logic etc). Voila, you suddenly have platform that can run 99% of code in > wild today with just few hundred mW of power. Try that with arm32, you > would be surprised how many software is technically compiling and all tha= t, > but has some weird runtime issues with either byte order or unaligned > memory accesses. Not even mention performance issues due to the lack of > hand-crafted JITs. > > Throwing away all that wealth is like shooting yourself in a foot...with = a > bazooka. > > -Max > > On Sat, May 26, 2018, 12:58 AM David Chisnall > wrote: > >> On 26 May 2018, at 00:41, Maxim Sobolev wrote: >> > >> > If you've seen any of the atom bay trail systems in action you may >> understand what I mean. You get full blown x64 system with four cores an= d >> it takes only 2W of power. >> >> Which is pretty much my point - if you want a low-power x86 system for >> embedded use, it=E2=80=99s going to be x86-64, not x86-32 (though hopefu= lly you=E2=80=99re >> using a 32-bit ABI with it). >> >> David >> >>