From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 7 17:33:55 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98114EF5 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 17:33:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nm18.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (nm18.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [212.82.96.41]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D211D2D3B for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 17:33:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [212.82.98.60] by nm18.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jul 2014 17:30:43 -0000 Received: from [46.228.39.79] by tm13.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jul 2014 17:30:43 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp116.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jul 2014 17:30:43 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rocketmail.com; s=s1024; t=1404754243; bh=nnfI6IkJXA43PO0oq5tF2y1iM0NI/I7XcvamTgvVwLM=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:X-Mailer:Mime-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=0gX1CufJ266Y3jgYAb4q2uemQX3iaQ9v3fauC7vRjK1juptlpL31VQIwBEtwvDeU2eJpRu2ztDm/sRdHCK2NmDIHxFk9j9Uyu9yBX8l7uTkl6EdFSZJdYJdcSXVFwlIzBe7UHVfod6om+73YdS/K4XUxSYI+QDIDujfsxrZX/iU= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 442290.38952.bm@smtp116.mail.ir2.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: 4MQjlbQVM1nIKrmz6gmqH3Ech_8XGRC.baysMWR2zR5INLV geFUjBBvFIkuDIQGrKBzH1GFiP7HnCC1MEmjm_Ab_ev3WXmAnuAMPUplJ1ne rGJNVl5X0qRRsow8Eg.fbybBc4uhv0tTDwkx4SXALVnZUh4TCFuwRy8EiOiC PqLeaexxX6WdtBxJaILBh4GlPxh_1gUoqfzIJsKjzYvaEVFmT_NskhK5LyQq HxK2SZvNnHdt5g6NAy6XY1r4Ka7hHzVq4yOOqJu4bh_YGCEuga.KpDrwjGC6 VYTG_J.2PjYhFApS5145FBcGSw7A.RECfbujVIgCmal8GjkL8pLfOsaC8uOB uDIBqPU4hDW7Gl56XPpMWiO1y_ZEGvq2YOzflJuEEeLAFINRRUkQ4bdCxFfu 7vsrLL0PnU7gWedA9r4A01ksLHwbsn2b5HiiQizhOj2X4jAGvfrNlQBo7aOU uqenISj7SHdH2UkPtJAWVT6LmSsib.onH8BSBk2JLqVeMo1a5H9DQvpgHtVG 7Pbn8FwTHMvFHAuBaddqTQGMN.FOOY9jv X-Yahoo-SMTP: BeMCPs2swBABTJ3kAeEiC_hE0mz8jRexLddJfD8pI2j32fOacjBmXg-- X-Rocket-Received: from e182021180.adsl.alicedsl.de (ralf.mardorf@85.182.21.180 with plain [188.125.69.59]) by smtp116.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 07 Jul 2014 17:30:43 +0000 UTC Message-ID: <1404754241.815.1.camel@archlinux> Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: The name "grep" From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 19:30:41 +0200 In-Reply-To: <53BAD236.3060501@qeng-ho.org> References: <20140707075443.d47ca06a.freebsd@edvax.de> <53BA4F77.60907@qeng-ho.org> <20140707104403.5a0694ff.freebsd@edvax.de> <53BA71A7.9040208@qeng-ho.org> <1404728392.19389.1.camel@archlinux> <53BA9EC0.9000201@qeng-ho.org> <20140707160528.7ecf9855.freebsd@edvax.de> <1404750481.19389.12.camel@archlinux> <53BAD236.3060501@qeng-ho.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.12.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 17:33:55 -0000 On Mon, 2014-07-07 at 18:00 +0100, Arthur Chance wrote: > On 07/07/2014 17:28, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > >> On Mon, 07 Jul 2014 14:21:04 +0100, Arthur Chance wrote: > >>> dd [options] [ infile [ outfile ]] > > > > This way users by accident could mistake the infile with the outfile. > > > > We dislike to randomly screw up infile and outfile, so IMO it makes > > sense to force if= and of= "operands". > > There's no problem about which file is input and which output with cp or > mv, so why on earth would it be a problem with a sane version of dd? > > If you really need a hand holding indication of which file is which, > > dd -i $infile -o $outfile > > would be in the Unix spirit, unlike the existing form. And with an > interactive shell you could use filename completion which fails with the > existing dd. Yes, I agree with "dd [options] -i infile -o outfile" - Polytropon, but there's a difference between cp/mv and dd. You can not copy or move e.g. a MBR, but you can dd a MBR. A superuser could damage the system with mv and cp too, but dd anyway is operating on another level. 2 Cents, Ralf PS: Sometimes the FreeBSD syntax IMO goes much to far, for example I compared ls from FreeBSD and Linux. $ uname -a FreeBSD freebsd 9.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 9.1-RELEASE #0 r243825: Tue Dec 4 09:23:10 UTC 2012 root@farrell.cse.buffalo.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64 $ ls -hAl ~/.xsession-errors -rw------- 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse 4.0k Jul 7 19:20 /home/rocketmouse/.xsession-errors $ ls .xsession-errors -hAl ls: -hAl: No such file or directory .xsession-errors $ [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ uname -a Linux archlinux 3.15.3-1-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Tue Jul 1 07:32:45 CEST 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ ls -hAl ~/.xsession-errors -rw------- 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse 1.4K Jul 7 19:26 /home/rocketmouse/.xsession-errors [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ ls .xsession-errors -hAl -rw------- 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse 1.4K Jul 7 19:26 .xsession-errors [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$