From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Feb 20 21:08:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AAB51065670 for ; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 21:08:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from 172-17-197-151.globalsuite.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1844D150090; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 21:08:53 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4F42B664.4070400@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 13:08:52 -0800 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120218 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex Goncharov References: <4F3E8225.9030501@FreeBSD.org> <4F3E8C26.3080900@FreeBSD.org> <4F3EA5F2.9070804@gmail.com> <4F3EAE5F.6070903@gmail.com> <20120217.220802.988.2@DOMY-PC> <4F3EDEBC.7040703@gmail.com> <4F3EFB70.5000102@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Tom Evans , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 8 to 9: Kernel modularization -- did it change? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 21:08:53 -0000 On 02/20/2012 08:54, Alex Goncharov wrote: > ,--- You/Tom (Mon, 20 Feb 2012 14:44:09 +0000) ----* > | On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 1:14 AM, Doug Barton wrote: > | > Because loading modules through loader.conf is > | > veeeeeerrrrryyyyyy sssssllllloooooowwwwww I added an rc.d script called > | > kld that will load the specified modules after disks are mounted. This > | > is at least an order of magnitude faster. > > | Come off it, loading modules from loader.conf takes seconds off disk, > | out of the 2+ minute total boot up. In my testing, which I posted around the time that I wrote and added the kld script, each module takes "a second or two" from the boot loader, whereas the 5 modules I load routinely take less than a second in total. > | There may be benefit on slow > | media, but in the general case I see no benefit (which might explain > | why not many people are bothering to change their working configs to > | save <2s on bootup). So don't make the change. I don't really care how much time you want to waste while your system boots. :) > Seconded. > > As many have noticed, the "veeeeeerrrrryyyyyy sssssllllloooooowwwwww" > and "order of magnitude faster" claim has not been supported by > empirical evidence in this discussion. That's because I already posted it a long time ago, and it's been confirmed by others on many occasions. Short version, the mechanism used by the loader to pull the bits off the disk is *always* going to be slower than reading them from the booted disk. I understand that you guys are new to this topic, so I'm happy to give you time to catch up, test it for yourself, etc. > If instead of .002 sec the module loading takes .02, It's closer to 1.5 seconds per module, on average. > nobody cares. And here's where you're making the biggest mistake. You're assuming that the only use case that's important is the one that you're familiar with. This isn't even close to true. For embedded systems speeding up the boot is critical. It's also important for people who use FreeBSD systems to make money, where every second of downtime translates to dollars lost. > The fact that one can spread configuration and initialization > parameters across several non-hierarchically-related entities > (rc.conf, loader.conf, device.hints) somewhat arbitrarily, seems not > right to me. A) It's not arbitrary, and B) That's an emotional response to a technical topic. Take a step back and try to understand the system, and why it's designed the way it is, separate from your emotions about it. That will help you make better technical decisions. > Personally, I don't care about winning 10 seconds on a boot So, don't use kld_list. It won't hurt *my* feelings one bit. :) Doug -- It's always a long day; 86400 doesn't fit into a short. Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/