From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 23 02:53:17 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C62ADBA57B; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 02:53:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1BB5977367; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 02:53:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id vAN2rIxs005424; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 18:53:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) X-Mailer: Cypht MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: , , In-Reply-To: <64AB4D76-B239-4E49-8D30-CF6D5D5D88A4@FreeBSD.org> From: "Chris H" Reply-To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com To: "Benno Rice" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 18:53:24 -0800 Message-Id: <5f4a62166aeb423a406a902bdc7078bc@udns.ultimatedns.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 02:53:17 -0000 On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 11:22:41 -0800 "Benno Rice" said > > On Nov 22, 2017, at 09:35, Steve Kargl > > wrote: > >=20 > > On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 08:29:46AM -0800, Benno Rice wrote: > >>=20 > >> With the removal of the fortune datfiles I think it=E2=80=99s time to > >> have a discussion about fortune(6)=2E > >=20 > > There should have been a discussion before the removal, but > > your method prevented an inevitable bikeshed=2E >=20 > You=E2=80=99re correct in that my intent was to avoid pointless discussio= n=2E We=E2=80=99ve > got bigger and more fun things to work on than coming up with an editoria= l > policy as to what is or isn=E2=80=99t appropriate in the fortune datfiles= =2E >=20 > >> fortune now defaults to using a fortune file that no longer exists: > >=20 > > When functionality is removed from src, a port is usually created=2E > > The datfiles should be available from ports/games/bsd-fortune=2E >=20 > Feel free to create it=2E If someone else wants to take editorial > responsibility for those files I=E2=80=99m all for it=2E FreeBSD should not= be taking > responsibility for them and I don=E2=80=99t wish to take that responsibil= ity > either=2E >=20 > >> $ fortune > >> No fortunes found in > > /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/local/share/games/fortune=2E > >>=20 > >> fortune is still used in the default =2Elogin/=2Eprofile to show entries > >> from the still existing freebsd-tips: > >>=20 > >> $ grep fortune /usr/share/skel/* > >> /usr/share/skel/dot=2Elogin:if ( -x /usr/bin/fortune ) /usr/bin/fortune > > freebsd-tips > >> /usr/share/skel/dot=2Eprofile:if [ -x /usr/bin/fortune ] ; then > > /usr/bin/fortune freebsd-tips ; fi > >> $ fortune freebsd-tips > >> If you need a reminder to leave your terminal, type "leave +hhmm" wher= e > >> "hhmm" represents in how many hours and minutes you need to leave=2E > >> =09=09-- Dru > >>=20 > >> fortune also still has flags for showing offensive entries and the lik= e=2E > >>=20 > >=20 > > What is offensive to one person may not offend another person=2E What > > if someone objects to quotes by Dru (sorry Dru looks like you got=20 > > picked at random above)=2E The above looks like an attack on people > > with memory loss issues (age discrimination?)=2E Will you remove Dru's > > quotes? >=20 > Nice try=2E The freebsd-tips collection has some useful stuff which is why = I > put forward the idea of keeping it=2E Comments like this are exactly why I = got > rid of everything else=2E >=20 > >> I would like people=E2=80=99s opinion on which of the following two pa= ths we > >> should take: > >>=20 > >> 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage from > >> the default =2Elogin/=2Eprofile files=2E > >=20 > > Create ports/games/bsd-fortune=2E >=20 > Be my guest=2E >=20 > >> 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and > >> make freebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as > >> /usr/share/games/fortune/fortunes=2E > >=20 > > 3) Restore the datfiles=2E Add a WITHOUT_FORTUNE knob and set it > > as the default=2E This allows an individual to tailor her system > > to meet her needs without having others force a politically=20 > > correct revisionist history on them=2E >=20 > Oh please=2E If you want the datfiles they=E2=80=99re there in history=2E If = you want > to be the one distributing them, go ahead=2E I=E2=80=99m fairly sure that t= he > availability of quotes regarding, or by, Hitler or anyone else has been > diminished by a rounding error or less by us no longer distributing the > datfiles=2E FreeBSD is an operating system, not an encyclopedia=2E >=20 > > This will be my one and only post in this bikeshed=2E Given the=20 > > sudden removal of the datfiles without discussion=2E This appears > > to be a perfunctory discussion prior to you pursuing your own > > choice=2E >=20 > Think of me whatever you want, I=E2=80=99m not fussed=2E I=E2=80=99m asking= with 100% > honest intentions what the community wants to do with this tool=2E If the > consensus is for retaining fortune for use with the freebsd-tips datfile = then > I=E2=80=99m absolutely cool with that=2E >=20 > I made a unilateral decision to remove a potential source of pointless > distraction=2E I could=E2=80=99ve unilaterally removed fortune entirely at = that point > but I didn=E2=80=99t as the freebsd-tips aspect appears to have actual ut= ility and > is something we can easily manage=2E The other files weren=E2=80=99t=2E If this is about removing things from FreeBSD that don't offer/provide "uti= lity"=2E Than you *should* have removed /usr/games entirely=2E Let's *actually* be "completely honest" about all this=2E I think I'm done here=2E Sorry=2E :( > If they=E2=80=99re > important to you, please feel free to check out either r325781 (if you wa= nt > the files) or r325095 (if you want the files with the Hitler quotes) and > maintain them yourself=2E >=20 > Cheers, > =09Benno=2E --Chris