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Date:      Fri, 10 Apr 2015 02:18:41 +0300
From:      Slawa Olhovchenkov <slw@zxy.spb.ru>
To:        Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@FreeBSD.org>
Cc:        "svn-src-head@freebsd.org" <svn-src-head@freebsd.org>, "svn-src-all@freebsd.org" <svn-src-all@freebsd.org>, Dmitry Marakasov <amdmi3@amdmi3.ru>, "src-committers@freebsd.org" <src-committers@freebsd.org>, Garrett Cooper <yaneurabeya@gmail.com>
Subject:   Re: svn commit: r281129 - head/etc
Message-ID:  <20150409231841.GT8220@zxy.spb.ru>
In-Reply-To: <20150409224714.GD96636@FreeBSD.org>
References:  <20150406084141.GK23643@zxy.spb.ru> <20150406084937.GX64665@FreeBSD.org> <20150406085323.GL23643@zxy.spb.ru> <20150409215802.GY21982@hades.panopticon> <20150409220442.GQ8220@zxy.spb.ru> <20150409221632.GB96636@FreeBSD.org> <20150409222557.GR8220@zxy.spb.ru> <20150409222833.GC96636@FreeBSD.org> <20150409223703.GS8220@zxy.spb.ru> <20150409224714.GD96636@FreeBSD.org>

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On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 01:47:14AM +0300, Gleb Smirnoff wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 01:37:03AM +0300, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote:
> S> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 01:28:33AM +0300, Gleb Smirnoff wrote:
> S> 
> S> > On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 01:25:57AM +0300, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote:
> S> > S> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 01:16:32AM +0300, Gleb Smirnoff wrote:
> S> > S> 
> S> > S> > On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 01:04:42AM +0300, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote:
> S> > S> > S> I am talk not about using or not using utf-8.
> S> > S> > S> I am talk about unconditionaly forcing switch from non-utf8 to utf-8
> S> > S> > S> locale (FreeBSD-11 can be get not only be fresh install but and by
> S> > S> > S> freebsd-update/source update on the live systems, with bunch files
> S> > S> > S> witch content in koi8 and named in koi8).
> S> > S> > 
> S> > S> > If content and names in KOI8 in existing installation block migration
> S> > S> > to UTF-8, how would you suggest to perform migration to UTF-8?
> S> > S> 
> S> > S> Just create new login class, russian_utf8.
> S> > S> Locale is process attribute, not system wide.
> S> > S> When someone will be ready to migrate and converted
> S> > S> content/names/configs -- he just change login class.
> S> > S> If not need -- not changed.
> S> > 
> S> > When is it going to be made default?
> S> 
> S> What about you talk?
> 
> About default locale for Russian users. When is going to be UTF-8
> by default if you were planning the migration?

Default? Where default? I don't see place in FreeBSD whith map
somewere to locale. May be I miss somewere?

> S> As I see current default -- no login class, locale "C".
> 
> No, the current default is UTF-8. The previous was KOI8-R. And this
> is the topic of our discussion, isn't it?

No. I don't talk about defaults.
If you talk about recomended (repeat, I don't see mechanism in base
systems for maping country/language to login class/locale) locale (in
handbook, for example) -- now, yesterday, tomorrow -- what you like.

I talk about changing existing behavior. Not about default. About
behavior. About backward comaptibility.

For example: existing system, user witch login class 'russian'. Files
named in koi8 and content in koi8. All work. Upgrade to 11.0 (source
upgrade, mergemaster -I -U). Now files content inacessible (replaced
russian chars by '?' or <hex>), file names print as '??????'. I think
this is not like.

(I currently in migration from koi8 locale to utf8 on multiple
systems. This is very complicated process. Unconditionaly forcing this
-- bad idea).

> S> I don't see any scrip/tools (in base systems) for creating users and
> S> ack 'language/locale for user'.
> 
> I do see.
> 
> adduser(8) asks explicitly, or you can specify it via -L argument.
> chpass(1) allows to modify it, if run as super-user.

In this cases you input any arbitrary string. No defaults (other then
'default' login class), no mapinig 'somewhere' => login class.

This is not changing /etc/adduser.conf or /etc/pw.conf.

You can create some script, addon to bsdinstall, for example, analyse
answer to keyboard mapping/screen map, ask about generate
pw.conf/adduser.conf and create this files with
defaultclass=russian_utf8. No protest.

> S> I don't like to remove koi8 locale from base systems (at least in 20
> S> years) -- you can see discursion in -current about Win95 (created 20
> S> yars ago).
> 
> It isn't removed.

Nice.



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