From owner-svn-src-head@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 9 23:18:45 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 834A5DF6; Thu, 9 Apr 2015 23:18:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zxy.spb.ru (zxy.spb.ru [195.70.199.98]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36011C8B; Thu, 9 Apr 2015 23:18:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from slw by zxy.spb.ru with local (Exim 4.84 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1YgLib-000FOH-Bg; Fri, 10 Apr 2015 02:18:41 +0300 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 02:18:41 +0300 From: Slawa Olhovchenkov To: Gleb Smirnoff Subject: Re: svn commit: r281129 - head/etc Message-ID: <20150409231841.GT8220@zxy.spb.ru> References: <20150406084141.GK23643@zxy.spb.ru> <20150406084937.GX64665@FreeBSD.org> <20150406085323.GL23643@zxy.spb.ru> <20150409215802.GY21982@hades.panopticon> <20150409220442.GQ8220@zxy.spb.ru> <20150409221632.GB96636@FreeBSD.org> <20150409222557.GR8220@zxy.spb.ru> <20150409222833.GC96636@FreeBSD.org> <20150409223703.GS8220@zxy.spb.ru> <20150409224714.GD96636@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20150409224714.GD96636@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: slw@zxy.spb.ru X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on zxy.spb.ru); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Cc: "svn-src-head@freebsd.org" , "svn-src-all@freebsd.org" , Dmitry Marakasov , "src-committers@freebsd.org" , Garrett Cooper X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 23:18:45 -0000 On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 01:47:14AM +0300, Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 01:37:03AM +0300, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote: > S> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 01:28:33AM +0300, Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > S> > S> > On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 01:25:57AM +0300, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote: > S> > S> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 01:16:32AM +0300, Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > S> > S> > S> > S> > On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 01:04:42AM +0300, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote: > S> > S> > S> I am talk not about using or not using utf-8. > S> > S> > S> I am talk about unconditionaly forcing switch from non-utf8 to utf-8 > S> > S> > S> locale (FreeBSD-11 can be get not only be fresh install but and by > S> > S> > S> freebsd-update/source update on the live systems, with bunch files > S> > S> > S> witch content in koi8 and named in koi8). > S> > S> > > S> > S> > If content and names in KOI8 in existing installation block migration > S> > S> > to UTF-8, how would you suggest to perform migration to UTF-8? > S> > S> > S> > S> Just create new login class, russian_utf8. > S> > S> Locale is process attribute, not system wide. > S> > S> When someone will be ready to migrate and converted > S> > S> content/names/configs -- he just change login class. > S> > S> If not need -- not changed. > S> > > S> > When is it going to be made default? > S> > S> What about you talk? > > About default locale for Russian users. When is going to be UTF-8 > by default if you were planning the migration? Default? Where default? I don't see place in FreeBSD whith map somewere to locale. May be I miss somewere? > S> As I see current default -- no login class, locale "C". > > No, the current default is UTF-8. The previous was KOI8-R. And this > is the topic of our discussion, isn't it? No. I don't talk about defaults. If you talk about recomended (repeat, I don't see mechanism in base systems for maping country/language to login class/locale) locale (in handbook, for example) -- now, yesterday, tomorrow -- what you like. I talk about changing existing behavior. Not about default. About behavior. About backward comaptibility. For example: existing system, user witch login class 'russian'. Files named in koi8 and content in koi8. All work. Upgrade to 11.0 (source upgrade, mergemaster -I -U). Now files content inacessible (replaced russian chars by '?' or ), file names print as '??????'. I think this is not like. (I currently in migration from koi8 locale to utf8 on multiple systems. This is very complicated process. Unconditionaly forcing this -- bad idea). > S> I don't see any scrip/tools (in base systems) for creating users and > S> ack 'language/locale for user'. > > I do see. > > adduser(8) asks explicitly, or you can specify it via -L argument. > chpass(1) allows to modify it, if run as super-user. In this cases you input any arbitrary string. No defaults (other then 'default' login class), no mapinig 'somewhere' => login class. This is not changing /etc/adduser.conf or /etc/pw.conf. You can create some script, addon to bsdinstall, for example, analyse answer to keyboard mapping/screen map, ask about generate pw.conf/adduser.conf and create this files with defaultclass=russian_utf8. No protest. > S> I don't like to remove koi8 locale from base systems (at least in 20 > S> years) -- you can see discursion in -current about Win95 (created 20 > S> yars ago). > > It isn't removed. Nice.