From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Feb 12 19:14:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1BDC106564A for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 19:14:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF2C48FC12 for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 19:14:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iaeo4 with SMTP id o4so3886929iae.13 for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:14:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=dUOQCLdgdO3YZvYJGhJLFr4V54vYPhaTRacyEWs/kGc=; b=PVOEZAnTIXJbntmvSgt2dDDEjxvkTx9YtXtkvZM+HvyNzx9FJVpCqtUrit/hO8dU6H ljpAp301TFh1MlIUGzPRW7rrEGwkFSM3GHt1f9LifZTD4rJbUGtzTxAjR3B9UymfY6Gq /ZH3eyujajmDQg8y7oPF1Bx/QAEZ7hhhqxCWs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.178.65 with SMTP id cw1mr23033987igc.16.1329074043214; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:14:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.183.21 with HTTP; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:14:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.183.21 with HTTP; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:14:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <60F4612D-96A5-4702-99A2-99E8102C373E@mac.com> References: <4F34FA17.7080000@quip.cz> <20120210133629.Horde.uDX6B5jmRSRPNQ9NDdkRUI4@webmail.leidinger.net> <201202102037.30996.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> <20120211080731.GD85504@goofy01.vnodelab.local> <3A8C8AA5-94A7-44C2-81BD-F348DAC4521A@mac.com> <60F4612D-96A5-4702-99A2-99E8102C373E@mac.com> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 19:14:02 +0000 Message-ID: From: Chris Rees To: Chuck Swiger Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Gonzalo Nemmi Subject: Re: Enhancing the user experience with tcsh X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 19:14:04 -0000 On 12 Feb 2012 18:22, "Chuck Swiger" wrote: > > On Feb 12, 2012, at 9:16 AM, Chris Rees wrote: > > So do I, but would these hurt you? > > At the present time, no. (At one point, I was using a keyboard > where the arrow keys generated "ESC-[ 1 ~" through "4", > IIRC, but I haven't been on console on it in some time.) > > > I think it's insane that by default the standard keys don't work. > > What "standard keys" would those be? > > Folks, assuming that everyone uses IBM-AT derived American QUERTY > layout keyboard is faulty. Our German friends are more likely to use > a QUERTZ layout, French/Benelux tend to use AZERTY, and non ISO-Latin-1 > languages like Russian and the asian languages have still other layouts. > > On the non-laptop keyboard I use most, which does have a QUERTY layout, > but it does not have an "Insert" key; that key is the function key: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_iMac_Keyboard_A1243.png [1] > > On other non-American keyboards, the "Insert" key is labelled "Help", > and generated 0xF5 ("F1" + Meta/set-high-bit?). > > Regards, > -- > -Chuck > > [1]: Which is decent, but not perfect. I'd swap ESC and "`~", and > caps-lock with control, and that would IMO be the perfect layout. > > For obvious reasons, I don't recall ever using or needing to use the > function key. Even when on a Windows box, I wouldn't typically use > the middle-upper 6-key Ins/DEL/etc block; I touch-type and my hands > don't like to leave home row. (On the other hand, I do change volume > and screen brightness daily, and even eject audio CDs more than I need Fn. > I'm just as happy to not need to do these things via two key-presses...) > > PS: Folks, all of the above discussion, which includes my preferences, is > aside from my main point, which is that proposed changes should first > land as examples. Far too much of what people consider obvious improvements > not only do not apply everywhere, they sometimes *don't* *work* and break > things. Right... not once however have you referenced the Home/End/Delete keys, which is what I was talking about (I'll give you Insert) :) The scan codes for those three keys are the same on (almost) all,keyboards. Jilles is right about fixing the tcsh source however. Chris