From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 24 18:09:25 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 329A816A4CE for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:09:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from srv1.cosmo-project.de (srv1.cosmo-project.de [213.83.6.106]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56F6F43D45 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:09:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ticso@cicely12.cicely.de) Received: from cicely5.cicely.de (cicely5.cicely.de [10.1.1.7]) (authenticated bits=0)j0OI9KHo059517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK); Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:09:22 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ticso@cicely12.cicely.de) Received: from cicely12.cicely.de (cicely12.cicely.de [IPv6:3ffe:400:8d0:301::12]) by cicely5.cicely.de (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j0OI8gU3043477 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:08:42 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ticso@cicely12.cicely.de) Received: from cicely12.cicely.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cicely12.cicely.de (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0OI8f2Y021618; Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:08:41 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ticso@cicely12.cicely.de) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by cicely12.cicely.de (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id j0OI8fM2021617; Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:08:41 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ticso) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:08:41 +0100 From: Bernd Walter To: "Kurt J. Lidl" Message-ID: <20050124180840.GH628@cicely12.cicely.de> References: <20050124083043.GA8729@kukulies.org> <20050124151612.GC628@cicely12.cicely.de> <20050124124250.A27718@pix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050124124250.A27718@pix.net> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD cicely12.cicely.de 5.2-CURRENT alpha User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=2.64 X-Spam-Report: * -4.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on cicely12.cicely.de cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: ticso@cicely.de Subject: Re: ttyd0/cuad0 - why is there still this duality ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: ticso@cicely.de List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:09:25 -0000 On Mon, Jan 24, 2005 at 12:42:50PM -0500, Kurt J. Lidl wrote: > On Mon, Jan 24, 2005 at 04:16:13PM +0100, Bernd Walter wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2005 at 09:30:43AM +0100, Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > > > Just a question. Maybe it isn't true but to me it seems there > > > is still this duality between ttyd and cuad serial devices. > > > > > > Why is that? I'm just asking because someone I was talking with > > > about modems an comm programs was 'criticising' this fact > > > in FreeBSD "while other systems long have abandoned this dualism"? > > > > Because modems are still used for dial-in and dial-out. > > tty handing out to getty and cua to the dial out process. > > Moreover this handling was recently added for usb serials under > > -current. > > If other systems loose features - well it's their problem. > > That's a very limited way of looking at the functionality. If you > want to support the functions of both dialin and dialout on one > serial port, there doesn't need to be more than one kernel device. > Just because support for this got hacked into 4.2BSD in a gross > manner doesn't mean that there isn't a better of doing this. You still have the option to just ignore existenz of tty* devnodes. > Having seperate dialout and dialin devices really are just a kludge > for having the kernel doing locking that could be done in userland > code. tty* vs cua* is more than just locking. > Just because FreeBSD does this the same way it's been done on > BSD-ish systems for the last 15 years doesn't mean there isn't a > better way of doing it. Yes, but this way it just works and applications used it for many years. -- B.Walter BWCT http://www.bwct.de bernd@bwct.de info@bwct.de