From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 24 06:26:36 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76114106566C for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 06:26:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from cpoproxy2-pub.bluehost.com (cpoproxy2-pub.bluehost.com [67.222.39.38]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 490928FC18 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 06:26:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 17287 invoked by uid 0); 24 Jul 2010 06:26:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by cpoproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2010 06:26:35 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=apotheon.com; h=Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Mail-Followup-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:X-Identified-User; b=hYwz5yU7hRxJuQlYx3jGQJtvxlFXfpndnFRtd+ODle/L0BU+yh6jom9qxrOngi/hplHTrUa0DBgXcQmQaKlNW8ekTWuN8H7sdRfYjjwPPPaGB02kyr/VfNovwNyknQPh; Received: from c-24-8-180-234.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.8.180.234] helo=kukaburra.hydra) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcYBu-0000P3-0D for freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 00:26:35 -0600 Received: by kukaburra.hydra (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sat, 24 Jul 2010 00:24:46 -0600 Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 00:24:46 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20100724062446.GD78741@guilt.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rz+pwK2yUstbofK6" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.org} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with ren@apotheon.org} Cc: Subject: Re: BSD logo X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 06:26:36 -0000 --rz+pwK2yUstbofK6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Disclaimer: I do not represent the FreeBSD project in any way, shape, or form. I am certain any such people would be much nicer and more polite about this than me. I'm sure I would be much nicer and more polite about it if I became a representative of the FreeBSD project at some point in the future. Because I am not officially affiliated with the project at all, though, I feel free to be brutally honest. On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 06:01:07AM +0400, Victor Skovorodnikov wrote: >=20 > This may sound strange but I have a question about logo. Why such a > logo for BSD? What is the meaning of that logo? It's a reference to "daemons", a type of software that runs in the background "listening" for connections. The term "daemon" has ancient roots in Greek mythology and has nothing to do with more recent Christian notions of "demons". In short, mythological "daemons" are basically just supernatural beings of lower power and stature than the pantheon of Greek gods, and computer "daemons" are helpful programs. >=20 > I have always been thinking of trying FreeBSD but as a Christian I get > deterred by its un-Christian logo. Good grief. Are you referring to the cartoon character? It's a cartoon character. It's not an attempt to lure your children to join Satan's armies. There's no reason to be "deterred" from giving FreeBSD a try just because of a friendly cartoon character. People who value their wool socks should not be deterred from using MS products because of the stupid moth mascot used by MSN, and those who dislike arctic climates shouldn't be deterred from using Linux-based systems because Linux uses a penguin as its mascot. By the same token, the notion that a red cartoon character with horns should deter a Christian from using FreeBSD is kind of silly. I was a member of a military unit known as the Red Devils years ago. I did not feel like I was being corrupted by Evil. Perhaps you would be deterred from being my friend because of this, nonetheless. If that is the case, though, I think I'm better off without you. While I normally prefer to take an inclusive approach to dealing with people who run into obstacles in their approach to thinking about OSes, there are cases where I simply feel the urge to throw my hands in the air and giving up on someone. Such cases are those where it seems likely that some kind of closed-minded idolatry (which is exactly what this is: taking a cartoony mascot as some kind of Manifest Presence of a supernatural, superhuman Force, Principle, or Being) is going on. Either you will get over it, or you will not, and it is only a very faint hope that pointing out the ludicrousness of your objection that compels me to respond at all. If you're talking about the weird sex toy thing that has become the new(er) official FreeBSD logo, however, it seems the FreeBSD project simply can't please some people. I'm pretty sure that was made so ambiguous and largely meaningless specifically because of fear of negative reactions from those who cannot imagine going through life without being offended -- and it still isn't working, if that's the reason for your complaint. It may be "un-Christian", but if so it's "un-Christian" like a penguin or a moth is "un-Christian", and not like a burning cross would be (and I'd call that "anti-Christian" instead, anyway). >=20 > Have you considered changing it to something else? Doesn't have to be > an angel, but perhaps something neutral ;-) ? I hope the logo doesn't change because of silly requests from those who cannot have religious beliefs without also being reasonable human beings. This whole thing reminds me of a conversation I had in the early '90s where someone told me that a Nine Inch Nails song called "God's Money" was blasphemous. Of course, there is no Nine Inch Nails song by that name, and the song the person was talking about ("Head Like A Hole") doesn't have the words "God's money" in it at all. The guy had misheard something and leaped to an erroneous conclusion without bothering to consider the possibility he was just a reactionary idiot. Someone's sure to call me intolerant or abrasive as a result of this email, but frankly, I don't care. Guilty as charged: I am not tolerant of intolerant, willfully ignorant fundamentalists, regardless of what fundamentalism infects them. It's not like you couldn't look up the answer to your question about the meaning of the cartoon mascot character on the Internet fairly easily anyway, assuaging your fears of eternal damnation by choosing the wrong OS. The desire to be outraged appears to be stronger than the desire to educate oneself. When this is the way someone starts a "discussion" about wanting to use a new OS, I tend to believe there is no genuine interest in using the OS in question. --=20 Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] --rz+pwK2yUstbofK6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkxKhy4ACgkQ9mn/Pj01uKW0cgCg63q/br7ESM+zW73LzAJND5UA RSEAn1JI10XjEXL9tj/B1hlBjp25m5RF =MCef -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --rz+pwK2yUstbofK6--