From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 3 21:03:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03934106564A; Sat, 3 Mar 2012 21:03:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kmacybsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 834CE8FC0A; Sat, 3 Mar 2012 21:03:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iahk25 with SMTP id k25so5109539iah.13 for ; Sat, 03 Mar 2012 13:03:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=bbzCWAysnWJXCbf2QM/twqbmoYzzVyPnYGJ9ecETYM0=; b=MIZQo13VkdarNuZc85T0f30UEW79m1b//2Z3ldm5FJB+XCHtN6VIh+Sk1d6y5Xt0MI 5U32Rqf1IPN0P1uo8Ig/b5PTgMzsR6ESmwUjQSWl2sGTi5Z8fcoO/UoRqSpC1Ey1X0A1 J1mfFhj5UMQzFP/brAhtDLR4mEniDxgcmoYzpUFA4kMupUkiPCJ7R49JsTLHx8hzwEAi xZwrRvenEmc6PGaH2w86gqVOTK8wRqgy/wBiIS9m1ZNey+cI+Wa/jtZcKlmPWMwjOLvP wzauZ4lF3MA1rMOZ8mAcGmtXI6F4rESRoFKGJ1kqi7IZYXAnGwjeLLmcIdSHwlGeqvE+ /v5A== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.149.163 with SMTP id ub3mr1598720igb.30.1330808628116; Sat, 03 Mar 2012 13:03:48 -0800 (PST) Sender: kmacybsd@gmail.com Received: by 10.50.134.106 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Mar 2012 13:03:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4F528517.5090702@FreeBSD.org> References: <20120221143537.Horde.deyFDZjmRSRPQ52pxBIpnLA@webmail.leidinger.net> <4F4BA707.5070608@wasikowski.net> <4F4C3FE7.3040802@FreeBSD.org> <4F4D51CB.2010508@FreeBSD.org> <4F4D5E5D.9040302@FreeBSD.org> <4F4DD288.5060106@FreeBSD.org> <4F4ED889.2070608@FreeBSD.org> <4F500BB9.4040307@FreeBSD.org> <4F5088CA.1090108@FreeBSD.org> <4F510FBD.50008@FreeBSD.org> <4F51BEE0.7090108@freebsd.org> <4F528517.5090702@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 22:03:48 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: AiCrA0GQzJk8gf62EdmgpL_fUv4 Message-ID: From: "K. Macy" To: Doug Barton Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: FreeBSD Stable , Garrett Cooper , =?ISO-8859-2?Q?z_W=B1sikowski?= , FreeBSD Current , Arnaud Lacombe , "Bjoern A. Zeeb" , Alexander Leidinger , Julian Elischer Subject: Re: flowtable usable or not X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2012 21:03:49 -0000 On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Doug Barton wrote: > On 03/03/2012 08:53, K. Macy wrote: >> a) We as a members of the community are collectively responsible for >> the state of FreeBSD. Simply disabling features or removing >> functionality that doesn't work or doesn't work optimally and / or >> filing bug reports but not being able or willing to respond to >> feedback requests is in essence a form of neglect. Although we all >> have day to day obligations for which the use of FreeBSD is extremely >> impractical if not impossible ... any progress, any improvements, any >> advancements will only happen because *we* made it happen. > > Since we're reiterating key points, I'll do mine one more time. While I > sympathize with what you wrote above, if you continue to believe that *users* > have a responsibility to help you debug new features you're going > to be disappointed and frustrated. Users don't, community members do. So I guess I rest my case for you Doug. You're an end user at the end of the day who thinks he is a member of the community. As you've made apparent on other threads. In your mind Other People(TM) are responsible for FreeBSD's welfare for consuming your dogfood because you know the people who eat it. FreeBSD would still be at the UP stage or worse the 5.x stage if everyone thought the way you do. Individuals who fail to understand the distinction between simple user and community member and are confused by which role they play can only further contribute to the acrimony. -Kip