From owner-freebsd-wireless@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 23 20:39:18 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-wireless@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2ED179E; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 20:39:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@h2.funkthat.com) Received: from h2.funkthat.com (gate2.funkthat.com [208.87.223.18]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F92D2EDD; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 20:39:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from h2.funkthat.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by h2.funkthat.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id r9NKdCdC095970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 23 Oct 2013 13:39:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg@h2.funkthat.com) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by h2.funkthat.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id r9NKdCf7095969; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 13:39:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 13:39:12 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Adrian Chadd Subject: Re: [rfc] removing the NDISulator Message-ID: <20131023203912.GD94140@funkthat.com> Mail-Followup-To: Adrian Chadd , freebsd-current , "freebsd-wireless@freebsd.org" References: <5265878B.1050809@yandex.ru> <201310212146.r9LLkqZ1044966@fire.js.berklix.net> <201310231023.32351.jhb@freebsd.org> <526810DB.20705@mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 7.2-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 54BA 873B 6515 3F10 9E88 9322 9CB1 8F74 6D3F A396 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ X-Resume: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/resume.html X-to-the-FBI-CIA-and-NSA: HI! HOW YA DOIN? can i haz chizburger? X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.2 (h2.funkthat.com [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 23 Oct 2013 13:39:12 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-current , "freebsd-wireless@freebsd.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-wireless@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions of 802.11 stack, tools device driver development." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 20:39:19 -0000 Adrian Chadd wrote this message on Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 11:11 -0700: > On 23 October 2013 11:09, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > Eh, having taken a stab at porting the bwl blob already, I would strongly > >> oppose removing NDIS. If you do that I will just stop using my netbook > >> with a Broadcom part altogether as I wouldn't be able to use it to try to > >> test bwl changes. The NDIS thing is a bit hackish, but it is quite useful > >> for a lot of folks. > >> > >> I have to agree. Deprecation != motivation. > > > I can pull out examples of this not holding true: > > * all the giant locking in drivers > * all the giant locking in VFS > > People did pop up and claim ownership of things they cared about. Some > stuff died, some stuff didn't. There was enough of a motivation by us to > kill giant off in these pathways so things could continue to evolve. We > didn't leave the GIANT crutch in forever. I'd say that locking a drive is a LOT easier than writing a driver from scratch, esspecially if you don't have the specs.. This of course coming from experience with both... -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not."