From nobody Fri Apr 28 18:42:09 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Q7M143KrYz47ps7 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2023 18:42:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oa1-x2e.google.com (mail-oa1-x2e.google.com [IPv6:2001:4860:4864:20::2e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Q7M132KrMz3Bs0; Fri, 28 Apr 2023 18:42:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-oa1-x2e.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-187b07ad783so317611fac.0; Fri, 28 Apr 2023 11:42:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1682707366; x=1685299366; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=tjnPXPztAhVFU6/F11FRK13RD9m+NOV6PMW4sMGMC64=; b=X437PvsCibGTMdrjO/P11zIe7gpvxQNzXPumjTPfI+hL5yqBzrNHqfTl6ZVyIaD+Cx NTNs8zxfKx7k5lOpgMFbA/AQ0nXr4f5M+50DtQoFtMDmiMyP4jQ9jKpjGP/9YOKMKpzN P+1eFRv9hL7+c0CMDipdVT9ddQLxffG5ut69Cr/Ne9IECIdA+3uJAZJfAYv3hmoBA3Yt YhTWQpkTNpzB42VZ2++aZUdp53rUbDhXSOhrkGX7sr0P4JPvzpjNK1OWmgc8vruLDpI1 vGZu9y/hg2JcT9yqhkG1G1aVSHp9gpx8l+JmEVERB9LTCV2bHr2eN2iXjuMom4uE9hyO a25g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1682707366; x=1685299366; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=tjnPXPztAhVFU6/F11FRK13RD9m+NOV6PMW4sMGMC64=; b=fLWo14ps8ROQE3EbWLE1Otnf3ubrbggXji61p6rAgUFjpygF3BFZJXIyvY9fBcLuc7 UfWWK/zadzrsWa4FiiqOi8uxJMwpRZHPkM9bmn/qkK5Snrtn4U+owzLapBwvPvw8siOe 8zSvwDa/6OYlGeKAHP5PjDLP1VOBPn7HZ8ld1C/h9Bc0KB686q/YG8vQledVxSah1YPZ 4ZSMuYHBbLdJ9f8DugHqtDjccqOl69nm6HIncnrx2BuliZnMDPHFnP7krhce0rq4DZbR ucPEUfLl/ji4/AawMcZtBM0dDdYQeAi3eLCoAPORWV8QsiqAVhoPJUE/jZzVO4umimy+ xhCw== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDznr3ZgFHC7QPT7pdgTTuZlmcXqC1czlEOAUB7BR5GR7BSYSdmk Wv9mNcfC+GlknvQHYbmnHxj+UxTz2Mtp32TJOTb8c8+/ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ6s03OmEJ4QD5G8vnEk9SJPn7njIUiWXyp/QwLjHM4dce/gMtr8bStEieCndmIdBKRlcy4SN/JP5jxwCVG/eP0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:7402:b0:18b:1c64:2d3f with SMTP id x2-20020a056870740200b0018b1c642d3fmr2761033oam.54.1682707365694; Fri, 28 Apr 2023 11:42:45 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arch List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <671d3bf6-b207-e7c5-5282-4df317193db6@selasky.org> <6079003b-7df2-f3c2-f624-6fe39a1cf9c0@selasky.org> In-Reply-To: <6079003b-7df2-f3c2-f624-6fe39a1cf9c0@selasky.org> From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2023 21:42:09 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Future of 32-bit platforms (including i386) To: Hans Petter Selasky Cc: Jessica Clarke , freebsd-arch , John Baldwin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cb135b05fa69d6d5" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Q7M132KrMz3Bs0 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2001:4860:4864::/48, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --000000000000cb135b05fa69d6d5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 8:45=E2=80=AFPM Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On 4/28/23 01:50, Jessica Clarke wrote: > > On 28 Apr 2023, at 00:44, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > >> > >> On 4/27/23 19:19, John Baldwin wrote: > >>> For 13.0, i386 was demoted from Tier 1 to Tier 2. In the announcemen= t > >>> of this for 13.0, the project committed to an update on i386's future > >>> around the time of 14.0. The announcement at the time suggested that > >>> i386 would be supported less in 14.x than in 13.x. > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> This makes me think about all the issues about the "long" type in the > past, and printf() and more, being caught when compiling TARGET_ARCH=3Di3= 86 . > >> > >> Maybe just put the following line of code somewhere central :-) > >> > >> _Static_assert(sizeof(long) =3D=3D 8); > >> > >> Will there ever be some kind of hybrid CPU systems? > >> > >> 4 cores AMD64, 4 cores AARCH64 and some virtual QEMU CPUs all running > on the same system? > >> > >> I mean, the arm vs intel battle is not going to end soonish. And > emulating CPUs is slow and waste electricity. Why not have one computer > having both kind of CPUs, and one OS, and one harddisk? And figure out a > common ABI allowing seamless task switching between them? I know there ar= e > some hard differences, but can't those be ironed out? > > > > I don=E2=80=99t know where to start with this other than to give an emp= hatic no > to almost all of what you said, or at least the bits for which meaning ca= n > be extracted. Regardless, this is not the place for such pie-in-the-sky > discussions; if you want to theorise about weird and wacky computer > architectures then please take it elsewhere. > > > > Hi Jess, > > I'd like to know why you think this is a wacky idea, to have a super-set > computer architecture, where each CPU can run the full instruction set > of both ARM64 and AARCH64 at the same time. > > You have an open invitation for a video call on FaceBook or whatever you > prefer to talk about this. Send me something off-list. > > --HPS > > It is not necessary to go to a very far distant future . Assume you have a cluster of boards with different CPUs . Then schedule execution of your programs with respect to the required CPU on this cluster . Is this possible with FreeBSD ? Is it a good or bad idea to have such a facility ? Mehmet Erol Sanliturk --000000000000cb135b05fa69d6d5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 8:45= =E2=80=AFPM Hans Petter Selasky <hps@= selasky.org> wrote:
On 4/28/23 01:50, Jessica Clarke wrote:
> On 28 Apr 2023, at 00:44, Hans Petter Selasky <hps@selasky.org> wrote:
>>
>> On 4/27/23 19:19, John Baldwin wrote:
>>> For 13.0, i386 was demoted from Tier 1 to Tier 2.=C2=A0 In the= announcement
>>> of this for 13.0, the project committed to an update on i386&#= 39;s future
>>> around the time of 14.0.=C2=A0 The announcement at the time su= ggested that
>>> i386 would be supported less in 14.x than in 13.x.
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This makes me think about all the issues about the "long"= ; type in the past, and printf() and more, being caught when compiling TARG= ET_ARCH=3Di386 .
>>
>> Maybe just put the following line of code somewhere central :-) >>
>> _Static_assert(sizeof(long) =3D=3D 8);
>>
>> Will there ever be some kind of hybrid CPU systems?
>>
>> 4 cores AMD64, 4 cores AARCH64 and some virtual QEMU CPUs all runn= ing on the same system?
>>
>> I mean, the arm vs intel battle is not going to end soonish. And e= mulating CPUs is slow and waste electricity. Why not have one computer havi= ng both kind of CPUs, and one OS, and one harddisk? And figure out a common= ABI allowing seamless task switching between them? I know there are some h= ard differences, but can't those be ironed out?
>
> I don=E2=80=99t know where to start with this other than to give an em= phatic no to almost all of what you said, or at least the bits for which me= aning can be extracted. Regardless, this is not the place for such pie-in-t= he-sky discussions; if you want to theorise about weird and wacky computer = architectures then please take it elsewhere.
>

Hi Jess,

I'd like to know why you think this is a wacky idea, to have a super-se= t
computer architecture, where each CPU can run the full instruction set
of both ARM64 and AARCH64 at the same time.

You have an open invitation for a video call on FaceBook or whatever you prefer to talk about this. Send me something off-list.

--HPS


It is not necessary to go to a very = far distant future .

Assume you have a cluster of bo= ards with different CPUs .
Then schedule execution of your programs = with respect to the required CPU on this cluster .

Is th= is possible with FreeBSD ?
Is it a good or bad idea to have such a f= acility ?




Mehmet E= rol Sanliturk


=C2=A0
--000000000000cb135b05fa69d6d5--