Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:42:57 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com> To: lamaster@george.arc.nasa.gov Cc: Randall Hopper <rhh@ct.picker.com>, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BT848 & ATI / S3 Cards Message-ID: <199709120242.TAA07160@rah.star-gate.com> In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:58:26 EDT." <19970911185826.36797@ct.picker.com>
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For XFree86 related questions feel free to browse http://www.xfree86.org With respect to video S3 968 and Matrox Millenium are good perfomers and I happen to own one of each . Amancio >From The Desk Of Randall Hopper : > lamaster@george.arc.nasa.gov: > |I use both an ATI Graphics Xpression [uses Mach64, but limited > |to 2 MB on the card] and a Number Nine 968-based card. I got > > |I could only get it to work with fxtv at 8 bpp- it hung > |with 24/32 bpp. Anyway, the ATI card could be replaced > |with a newer card if I could find the right card. > > That's interesting. Doug White's got a Mach64 card too and said it worked > in 8,15,16,32 bpp, just not 24. This was however a Pro Turbo which has the > faster VRAM; the Xpression has DRAM as I recall. Might make a difference. > > Does it lock your machine? Lock the Xserver? Or just not display video? > Is it running ximages mode or direct video when it locks (i.e. did it print > "backing off and using XImages" when you started it up). If it was doing > direct video, for a test add "-disableDirectV" to the command line to > disable direct video. If this works OK, this might indicate a problem with > PCI-PCI DMA on your system, possibly related to the chipset or that the > DRAM Xpression not being able to handle the bandwidth. Note that in 8bpp > mode, you're not using direct video. > > You can try using 1024x768 in 15 or 16 bpp on your 2Meg ATI Xpression. I > think you'll be pretty satisified with this mode since you can get your > 1024x768 resolution and probably with direct video too. It also cuts the > TV bandwidth down by 1/3 over 24bpp. The direct video will lift a big load > off your CPU compared to 8bpp, and the TV will look worlds better too. :-) > > |I haven't been that impressed, I admit, with the S3 XFree86 > |performance, compared to commercial X servers (e.g. the server > |on the SGI Irix 6.2). I'm surprised, now that I look at it, > |that it has the DGA extension. Do I need to do anything > |to "exercise" it? > > No, given that you have a solid PCI chipset, I think you're home free. > Some of the best supported and best performing cards under XFree are S3. > No surprise that a good many folks on the list run S3 968 or Virge cards. > Compared to an SGI, few consumer PC cards are steller. But relative to > other PC cards under XFree, they're up there in the ratings. > > |Anyway, what I'm verbosely leading up to is this: > | > |I could easily persuade myself to get a new board, if I could > |find the right card. > > I'd try both your cards you have first. I'll assist any way I can to work > through any TV problems. If neither of them ends up meeting your > expectations, then you might look around. > > |Do you know if XFree86 can be made to both support 1280x1024 > |*and* 24/32 bpp?. Do any of these cards support 1280x1024 > |*and* 24/32 bpp under XFree86? How about the STB Virge/VX board > |you mention above? (How much memory do you have?) How about > > For detailed XFree card support info, you probably want to surf: > http://www.xfree86.org/3.3.1 > > To do 1280x1024 in true 32bpp or unpacked 24bpp, your gonna need a card > with at least 5Meg o' memory (!). For 1280x1024 w/ packed 24bpp, you're down > below 4Meg. However, unless you spend lots of time doing image processing > or photorealistic display, you may find like me that you like 16bpp the > best, getting you higher resolutions, bigger desktops, and better refresh > rates with the same amount of memory. So if you live mostly in > 1280x1024x16bpp (> 2Meg), sounds like you're still looking for a card with > 4Meg (or more if 16bpp doesn't cut it). > > Regarding my card. My priorities when I bought it this spring: "big" XFree > desktop in 16bpp, high refresh rates especially in high-res modes, > Wincast/TV compatible, solid/stable XFree and MSW95 support, good 2D DOS > and Windoze performance, didn't/don't care about hardware 3D yet (no > standard), and good vendor support. (I plan to upgrade to a 21" monitor > sometime soon, so that factored in.) > > After talking to the folks on the multimedia list and surfing vendor pages, > STB Velocity 3D 4Meg was the best deal for me. Steve Passe in particular > has one of these as well and runs it in 1600x1200x75Mhz -- where I hope to > be someday :-) Virge/VX chipset, EDO VRAM (great for direct video and video > perf), and sports a 220MHz RAMDAC (one of the highest-speed RAMDACs on a > consumer card, giving very high refresh rates at high resolutions). And > only $179 half a year ago -- and that wasn't the cheapest price then; > surely that's gone even lower by now. > > |the Matrox Millenium II, which, I guess, can be acquired a lot > |more cheaply now the previous Millenium. (DGA/direct-video?) > > Can't speak to the Milleniums. Amancio's got one now so he'd be the guy to > quiz there about TV and direct video on those cards. > > |I guess there are new STB and Number Nine cards also. I suppose > |that none of these boards are supported yet under XFree86. > > If you mean the new Virge/DX and /GX cards, yes they're supported (see the > XFree URL above). No first hand experience but that's what the page says. > > However, keep in mind that the DX and GX, though newer and having better 3D > performance, only support a 170Mhz RAMDAC. May not be important to you -- > you have to decide. In order, the Virge RAMDAC speed limits are: Virge = > 135Mhz, GX/DX/GX2 = 170Mhz, VX = 220Mhz. Non-OEM Velocity 3Ds (Virge/VX) > all come standard with 220Mhz. The Diamond Stealth 3D 3000s (Virge/VX) > come with either 220Mhz or something like 170Mhz, so if that makes a > difference you have to be careful. > > |Anyway again, do you know of a web page somewhere which describes > |this product matrix of boards, XFree86 features, how to optimize, > |etc.? It took me a surprising amount of messing around just with > |XFree86 to get what I have now [in contrast, installing FreeBSD > |has been a total piece of cake - amazingly high quality kernel]. > > Vendor pages, the XFree URL I mentioned above, and maybe the XFree > benchmark page (http://www.goof.com/xbench/) are all that come to mind. > Sounds like with your color depth and resolution requirements, you can thin > the possiblities down to a small shopping list without much trouble. > > Hope this provides some help. Let me know how the TV tests go and if I can > provide any additional video card info. > > Randall Hopper
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