From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Tue May 28 02:29:46 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8724D15B32C3 for ; Tue, 28 May 2019 02:29:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x72f.google.com (mail-qk1-x72f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B166291962 for ; Tue, 28 May 2019 02:29:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x72f.google.com with SMTP id c70so6133663qkg.7 for ; Mon, 27 May 2019 19:29:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=BYZKr72PfZwQqXqVxK7CZR8fEdmlyHYUJaF0Zaeanik=; b=ep3oz+B1MoDY+emoi1nFQQVsN/zAiMvJOqB6IUDckUR32D/CL2lEvnLmYsX1EqRPh2 JhgfzQqie/Uq/CmCisseupLjdqoTUgFSE2FHVvE9aex8wJyce+nNMZk7fzAcln6y1SXp JUlByhrKKED7xJSMhandtUoHblcZWdkvRStBa26QvNHgiEmr5gpCxMYm2GFtlSjylh4k a0L4IYWc5FQxMh2kD5PM4tvt7k/Ycd/uXFC2AFZuJOnwQbgacSGPw/E5hFnddZa2v6B2 M2y1w0KxhI7w/I3n2z73Mlr2CuNwvmuohF+gcvH5o0vN7DAeKxEzA4r9ZwJ2gz48mImu Y4qQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=BYZKr72PfZwQqXqVxK7CZR8fEdmlyHYUJaF0Zaeanik=; b=MREsOy6no7plBmFyfanLQKLvIvuAh3rhynop4gRkWaJJh2Rvsc4sBIMetFj7f0lWPG 1oLj1tCyHWLJ0+4HGxZzJlhtTGk+jOYysZy3nyl9DRT5bDs59EtxyzbfB9PuxEUJuFYm Xxu6+40bk2TgyGusOrawJvLVguSL5hB5ZSI1815mdTuFOiW5UEHMv5lF86h1aCf14YHR qtkq0Rkpwi8slvZlsoNEf0/c8QBAbamWr8s7sVUSt/xD+2g9WExubB1g/AK1CfmaDWXZ Sh3DUTXugskzA4CtCLUz7PsXk/21jMFvnRlrXA0bOG5cUkwhzGk4vM51g5MQ/GMvdk2j 2gug== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUSJT2h6b2IE1U7MT9A/jjD+cbihqC+WYuy9e3Q3Xy/BoPMX/rl sq+5xSjaALcU768NGPC/ZokRRyb3VbtuKfO7qUJSPM9G X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx8tdb5qyoqePqwtKPYkaZcR90AiIz1No6BcGscoOiqvZZoMzYQuDUBfEBTH8yes9v/jSanu6RgBF5BhpcMjD0= X-Received: by 2002:a37:484e:: with SMTP id v75mr9894873qka.331.1559010584927; Mon, 27 May 2019 19:29:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2d16a2a9ac5c090f196674d40d0cb398@ultra-secure.de> <3E7C1D63-996E-4AA0-A0A4-455B996BB9D6@gmail.com> <24F2196F-A5A9-4BBA-B4D4-D6721B42A7C8@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <24F2196F-A5A9-4BBA-B4D4-D6721B42A7C8@gmail.com> From: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 20:29:33 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Disabling COMPAT_FREEBSD4/5/6/7/9 as a default kernel option To: Garrett Cooper Cc: Rainer Duffner , "Conrad E. Meyer" , voidanix@420blaze.it, freebsd-current , owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: B166291962 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=ep3oz+B1 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.96 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[f.2.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.92)[-0.924,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; IP_SCORE(-3.03)[ip: (-9.50), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.29), asn: 15169(-2.28), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 02:29:46 -0000 On Mon, May 27, 2019, 8:23 PM Enji Cooper wrote: > > On May 27, 2019, at 7:20 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Mon, May 27, 2019, 6:49 PM Enji Cooper wrote: > >> >> > On May 27, 2019, at 08:27, rainer@ultra-secure.de wrote: >> > >> > Am 2019-05-27 17:05, schrieb Conrad Meyer: >> >> Hi Rainier, >> >> On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 7:47 AM wrote: >> >>> I have a 32bit FreeBSD 6 binary that I'll need for a bit until the >> >>> department who is technically responsible for the service gets aroun= d >> >>> redoing that service. >> >> Even if this proposal is approved, it would only affect 13+. You >> >> could still run your FreeBSD 6 binary in a 32-bit 12 VM in a 13+ >> >> Bhyve. But do consider lighting a fire under whatever department >> >> thinks it's ok to deploy like that :-). >> >> Take care, >> >> Conrad >> > >> > >> > I thought so, too. >> > >> > I don't really want to run the abandonware of a RADIUS-server any >> longer than necessary (as absurd as that sounds). >> > >> > It's also running a recursive nameserver (previously also >> authoritative) that is still hard-coded in CPE and computers behind >> firewalls. >> > >> > I first wanted to virtualize it (it's not a big problem) - but this wa= y >> the problem is just dragged out: "But it still works, does it and we hav= e >> no time". >> > >> > Everybody now knows that the clock is ticking, literally. >> > >> > Oh, I also remember George Neville-Neil talking about a - what - >> FreeBSD 4 binary that a certain search-engine had lost the sources for a= nd >> was running on FreeBSD 7 with compat4. >> > (We also have a client who literally begged us to leave a decade-old >> Solaris box running through 2019 and half of 2020 so they could continue= to >> do their bookkeeping on a home-grown java-app that I suspect they, too h= ave >> lost the sources to...). It's running jdk15 and getting that thing to ru= n >> under anything semi-decent doesn't seem to have worked-out too well. >> > So, people pray for the best and don't prepare for the worst. >> > >> > >> > Other stuff I can think of: >> > - very old Netbackup-Clients (like 5-series), though I doubt they stil= l >> work on recent releases, because 7.71 (last official version and intende= d >> for FreeBSD 11) stopped working on FreeBSD12, sadly) >> > - certain pre-compiled VMWare Tools Modules? Pre open-source-tools (I >> can never make up my mind if it's VMWare-open-Tools or Open-VMWare-Tools= or >> something different) >> > >> > >> > What ever people do with COMPAT4-9 - it's bordering the pathological. >> >> I=E2=80=99ll counter the OP=E2=80=99s suggestion a bit: >> >> It would be nice if the compat options were modularized and printed out >> an EOS warning when loaded, so the user was aware that the modules are n= ot >> supported by FreeBSD, in terms of security and whatnot. >> > > How is that relevant? They just control system calls, not any userland > libraries that might or might not have a security exposure. Plus, if not > done right you either startle the horses for no reason, or you run the ri= sk > of a console DoS if you print something on each system call=E2=80=A6 > > > My point was to suggest basically controlling the syscall table (like > linux does for instance). If a compat module was loaded, it would print o= ut > the warning. Not on each syscall entry. That would be insanity as far as > performance degradation would be concerned :/. > Except it would take a lot of work to make the compat options a module. Also, we need them for the upgrade path... I'm still not convinced a warning would be more beneficial than the concern it would generates... Warner