From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 22 23:47:27 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF22D1065670 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 2009 23:47:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from delphij@delphij.net) Received: from tarsier.geekcn.org (delphij-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:2c9::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5E228FC15 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 2009 23:47:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.geekcn.org (tarsier.geekcn.org [211.166.10.233]) by tarsier.geekcn.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B91CA5A204; Wed, 23 Dec 2009 07:47:14 +0800 (CST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at geekcn.org Received: from tarsier.geekcn.org ([211.166.10.233]) by mail.geekcn.org (mail.geekcn.org [211.166.10.233]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id CLIM5MeBtNDI; Wed, 23 Dec 2009 07:46:44 +0800 (CST) Received: from delta.delphij.net (drawbridge.ixsystems.com [206.40.55.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tarsier.geekcn.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3860BA5A207; Wed, 23 Dec 2009 07:46:41 +0800 (CST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=default; d=delphij.net; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:organization:user-agent: mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=bEUO/1WoxQURd60j4xPf8N3SjMTCLrxhtpKKWx5lcGByRqp7wjAan2JkKEVFDEcp9 xPRHj/D92bAZ+mRcvfMLg== Message-ID: <4B315A5A.6040101@delphij.net> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:46:34 -0800 From: Xin LI Organization: The Geek China Organization User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091220 Thunderbird/3.0 ThunderBrowse/3.2.6.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Suggestion: rename "killall" to "fkill", but wait five years to phase the new name in X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: d@delphij.net List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 23:47:27 -0000 On 2009/12/22 14:54, Jason A. Spiro wrote: > Hi Xin, > > On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Xin LI wrote: > >> I'm afraid that it's too late to change either parties, i.e. there >> would be a lot of scripts that rely on the BSD or Linux behavior, etc. > > That is why I suggested that you first show a warning message for five > years, then do the renaming. killall can be used by scripts which just works in the past, and will never notice the warnings. Also, killall is not "that" dangerous on FreeBSD, we should ONLY give warnings when it's really necessary, otherwise users would just ignore all warnings we gave to them. On the other hand, it seems to us that warning messages won't work, no matter how long we give it, it is being ignored by a majority of users. >> Instead of making changes to killall which already diverge between >> open source implementation and closed source ones, > > If you rename the open source killall to "fkill", then you will no > longer have a killall command which differs between open source and > closed source. Then users are already familiar with FreeBSD would have to learn what "fkill" is, and after all, having them to pay for mistakes made by commercial Unix vendors does not seem to be a fair option. >> it might be better >> off to have administrators to learn some more consistent ways to do >> the same task, i.e. pkill. > > It would be good if sysadmins learned not to use killall. But I think > that most sysadmins who are already used to killall are unlikely to > learn not to type the command "killall" unless you rename open-source > killall to a different name like "fkill". Well, I'd say it's too late for us to change since it's several years after we have 'killall' our way. > I think it's impractical to expect all sysadmins to switch to pkill. > Pkill is missing the option which displays a list onscreen of which > processes were killed. I sent a feature request to the maintainer, > but there is no guarantee that the maintainer will add that option. > And maybe there are other pkill options which are missing from skill. pkill have '-I', at least on FreeBSD... Cheers, -- Xin LI http://www.delphij.net/ FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! Live free or die