From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Apr 10 11:50:00 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D61E72BB5AB for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 11:50:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from debdrup@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48zGXS5NJvz3xDd for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 11:50:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from debdrup@freebsd.org) Received: from mail-yb1-f174.google.com (mail-yb1-f174.google.com [209.85.219.174]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: debdrup) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A126C1C03 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 11:50:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from debdrup@freebsd.org) Received: by mail-yb1-f174.google.com with SMTP id n2so1078881ybg.4 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 04:50:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Pub+mT2PLu7pt7X5XpXB5txXOza8qVtFtn6/l65wjZeLmR4NVVNG 0YT8MRKROhi04kjQh8BjPi31wHUYIzxb98SedR8cLQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLCVzCvjYGyIn9xaMS/O3Z8ZV1XHjhUBJTXN/PlyAZYsvulvQG4rsYTVR5QPZIPc6acinEv32pveBFAwX/p6hw= X-Received: by 2002:a25:e5c6:: with SMTP id c189mr7007428ybh.354.1586519400096; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 04:50:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a25:6006:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 04:49:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <204957c6-1d86-7e55-b3c9-ecaabdcd8be3@quip.cz> References: <204957c6-1d86-7e55-b3c9-ecaabdcd8be3@quip.cz> From: Daniel Ebdrup Jensen Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 13:49:59 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Ars Technica article on FreeBSD new user experience To: Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> Cc: Rick Macklem , Ed Maste , FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 11:50:00 -0000 On 4/10/20, Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> wrote: > Rick Macklem wrote on 2020/04/09 23:39: >> Ed Maste wrote: >>> Jim Salter has an article in Ars Technica discussing his experience >>> with FreeBSD 12.1 as a desktop: >>> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/04/not-actually-linux-distro-revie= w-freebsd-12-1-release/ >>> >>> There are some points in there that might involve misunderstanding, >>> but there are also a number of real issues raised about the experience >>> a new (or newish) desktop FreeBSD user will have. It will be a good >>> idea for us to examine these, and offer advice or corrections if >>> appropriate, and otherwise look how we can improve the FreeBSD >>> experience for new users. >> Since this is a public mailing list, I'll repost here... >> >> One thought here that I'll throw out (I have no idea if others have >> suggested >> this before)=E2=80=A6 >> What about creating a separate release for desktops/laptops that install= s >> X Windows etc from a simple installer "out of the box"? >> --> To keep it simple, don't try to support all hardware, just stuff tha= t >> is widely >> available and already well supported by the drivers in FreeBSD. >> Obviously amd64 only plus a few widely available display chip set= s >> that work >> well, etc and so on... >> >> If it doesn't support the hardware someone has, then they can go the >> regular >> release/install route. (It would be nice to maintain an up to date list = of >> what >> hardware it supports, but it might be easier to just have it start up li= ve >> CD >> style and then see if the hardware it needs is there. >> --> Sorry, can't do this display chipset to that sound chip or... > > There has been some attempt to create simple script to setup desktop / > workstation with Xorg > https://euroquis.nl/freebsd/2019/08/12/instant-workstation.html > https://raw.githubusercontent.com/adriaandegroot/FreeBSDTools/master/bin/= instant-workstation > > The biggest problem is graphic driver detection. > > If something like this can be available on newly installed machines then > any new user can run just the one command to get Xorg up and running > with KDE / GNOME / Xfce / Mate... > > Kind regards > Miroslav Lachman > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " > Is devmatch(8) [1] not intended to solve the problem of auto-detecting hardware? [2] suggests that it works for i915 thanks to johalun@, but I wasn't immediately able to find the equivalent for radeon or amdgpu drivers - and based on [3] it looks like patches are more than welcome. I'm just a docs contributor, but I know we have smarter people than me, so I think it would be awesome if someone could find the time for it. [1]: https://man.freebsd.org/devmatch(8) [2]: https://github.com/FreeBSDDesktop/kms-drm/commit/9a0b7d0cebc2f6acf4f05= ba6ae4b0a191a16afee [3]: https://github.com/FreeBSDDesktop/kms-drm/issues/68