From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 9 11:22:03 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3144C99 for ; Mon, 9 Dec 2013 11:22:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mailhost.m5p.com (ip-2-1-0-2.r03.asbnva02.us.ce.gin.ntt.net [IPv6:2001:418:0:5000::16]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 77C1310EA for ; Mon, 9 Dec 2013 11:22:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonderland.m5p.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mailhost.m5p.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rB9BLua9076965 for ; Mon, 9 Dec 2013 06:22:01 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from george+freebsd@m5p.com) Message-ID: <52A5A7D4.4080404@m5p.com> Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2013 06:21:56 -0500 From: George Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BIND segway -> python -> first-class ports References: <529E8C53.6020208@freebsd.org> <20131204060246.GV2951@home.opsec.eu> <52A12843.3010204@freebsd.org> <0BFC927B-D72E-4926-BB3D-2C000F310BDD@fisglobal.com> <7271C4C4-7BAB-4DA7-9E10-49D5B2DB8964@mu.org> <52A51438.4090200@bluerosetech.com> <8D54491D-5A1C-4D30-AD48-12336D0726DC@gsoft.com.au> <5C28ECE3-CE0C-44A9-A7CD-08A01C714594@fisglobal.com> In-Reply-To: <5C28ECE3-CE0C-44A9-A7CD-08A01C714594@fisglobal.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.73 on 10.100.0.3 X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (mailhost.m5p.com [IPv6:::1]); Mon, 09 Dec 2013 06:22:01 -0500 (EST) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2013 11:22:04 -0000 On 12/09/13 00:39, Teske, Devin wrote: > [...] > But keep in mind... > > The real power is not in shell, the real power is in POSIX. I have the supreme > pleasure of having developed C programs that can compile on: > > + Windows using MinGW > + Mac OS X using ... gcc > + Mac OS Classic using SIOUX > NB: Simple Input/Output User eXchange > + Linux, Unix, BSD, AIX, OSF1, Amiga, etc. > > All with a single source package. It's the power of POSIX. > > So whenever I've made a choice to target "/bin/sh" as a platform, it's > always *only* ever been based on the decision of "reach". > > Shell quite often doesn't cut it. Prior to shell, I spent my time trying > building libraries used to abstract higher functionality for cross-platform > compatibility. And, until now, that's primarily been in C -- shell is only a > recent excursion because I feel I've *finally* nailed the right recipes for > that. > > I'm actually a bit worried that Python and Lua don't have the reach that C does, > let alone shell. > +1 to a well-reasoned and insightful post. What are your thoughts on the other part of Mr. Perlstein's concern: the lack of what I would like to call a Grand Unified Schema? Perhaps such a thing belongs in POSIX as well, as it would be intriguing to be able to write tools (in whatever language) that could rely on uniformly parseable data (i.e. sizes always known to be in eight-bit bytes, text in UTF-8 [let's say], time in seconds, numbers in decimal without commas, key-value pairs in a specified format, consistent meaning for key names). -- George