From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Apr 13 01:48:07 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1624B2AF4A5 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 01:48:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: from gold.funkthat.com (gate2.funkthat.com [208.87.223.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "gate2.funkthat.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 490s2Z1vk2z3wmD; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 01:48:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: from gold.funkthat.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gold.funkthat.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 03D1m48O068403 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 12 Apr 2020 18:48:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by gold.funkthat.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 03D1m45W068402; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 18:48:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 18:48:04 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Steve Kargl Cc: Enji Cooper , Kyle Evans , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Ars Technica article on FreeBSD new user experience Message-ID: <20200413014804.GO4213@funkthat.com> Mail-Followup-To: Steve Kargl , Enji Cooper , Kyle Evans , FreeBSD Hackers References: <20200410061248.GK4213@funkthat.com> <20200411004620.GL4213@funkthat.com> <7E83538A-9360-4B0D-9190-6E3A675C53DD@gmail.com> <20200411224807.GA27470@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200411224807.GA27470@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 11.3-STABLE amd64 X-PGP-Fingerprint: D87A 235F FB71 1F3F 55B7 ED9B D5FF 5A51 C0AC 3D65 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: https://www.funkthat.com/ X-Resume: https://www.funkthat.com/~jmg/resume.html X-TipJar: bitcoin:13Qmb6AeTgQecazTWph4XasEsP7nGRbAPE X-to-the-FBI-CIA-and-NSA: HI! HOW YA DOIN? can i haz chizburger? User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.1 (2016-04-27) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (gold.funkthat.com [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 12 Apr 2020 18:48:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 490s2Z1vk2z3wmD X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jmg@gold.funkthat.com has no SPF policy when checking 208.87.223.18) smtp.mailfrom=jmg@gold.funkthat.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.09 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.86)[-0.864,0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; IP_SCORE(-0.53)[ip: (-1.36), ipnet: 208.87.216.0/21(-0.68), asn: 32354(-0.54), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[funkthat.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.91)[-0.906,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[jmg@funkthat.com,jmg@gold.funkthat.com]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:32354, ipnet:208.87.216.0/21, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[jmg@funkthat.com,jmg@gold.funkthat.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 01:48:07 -0000 Steve Kargl wrote this message on Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 15:48 -0700: > On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 02:32:36PM -0700, Enji Cooper wrote: > > > > Given that the only other base system shell option is csh, I opt out of both and always install bash (I haven???t quite jumped on the zsh train yet). > > Thanks, > > tcsh != csh well, on FreeBSD they're the same: $ls -li /bin/*csh 182 -r-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 394712 Jun 2 2016 /bin/csh* 182 -r-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 394712 Jun 2 2016 /bin/tcsh* It's not clear from FreeBSD's man page if tcsh behaves like csh when invoked as such, or if it always behaves as tcsh... -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not."