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Date:      Sat, 29 Nov 2008 08:26:57 -0800 (PST)
From:      David Roseman <david_5073@yahoo.com>
To:        =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sebastian_Tymk=F3w?= <sebastian.tymkow@gmail.com>
Cc:        freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, Marcello Barreto <marcello@linconet.com.br>, freebsd-pf@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: PF + ALTQ - Bandwidth per customer
Message-ID:  <425805.11833.qm@web38505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <692660060811290748i33059137g3977e51f692d8340@mail.gmail.com>

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Is top-posting allowed here?

This product has been around longer than ALTQ and pf. So its unlikely
that they threw away something that has always been superior to ALTQ to=20
replace it with ALTQ. The release notes go back to 1996. They also claim
to have re-written the FreeBSD bridging code to gain 40% in performance.=20

http://www.etinc.com/release.notes

RED and CBQ were technologies championed by Cisco. They're designed to
work on CPU-starved routers. Cisco had a big problem because their routers
were designed to move packets and they didn't have any cpu power available
for intelligent processing required for packet shaping. So they designed
these brain-dead "leaky bucket" and CBQ models to work on their cpu-starved=
 routers in the 90s. Inexplicably, these silly techniques were copied and p=
ut into pubic operating systems, and people still use them to
save what amounts to pennies compared to the new business they can attract
with a better network.

If you'd read the white papers you'd know its not a queue-based
product and its totally custom. Window shaping is really the most
important technology to reduce the amount of traffic in a nework. Slowing
servers naturally without having to queue data makes a dramatic change in
the delay patterns of a large network. Imagine 1000 servers sending 3000
bytes per window instead of 32K. The backup queue depths are dramatically=
=20
reduced even without specific bandwidth limits per customer.

It also has a traffic monitor that is indispensable in tracking down=20
DOS attacks, worms and out of control servers. I'd pay $500. just for the m=
onitor. I have a problem, I fire up the monitor and bingo, I find the=20
problem. I think you can buy the lowest priced license and still use the
monitor and gather statistics no matter how large your network is.

David

--- On Sat, 11/29/08, Sebastian Tymk=F3w <sebastian.tymkow@gmail.com> wrote=
:

> From: Sebastian Tymk=F3w <sebastian.tymkow@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: PF + ALTQ - Bandwidth per customer
> To: david_5073@yahoo.com
> Cc: freebsd-pf@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, "Marcello Barreto" <=
marcello@linconet.com.br>
> Date: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 10:48 AM
> Hello,
>=20
> Why do you think it's unrealiable technology ?
> I think system that you propose rely on this technology ;)
> Most of this use bsd/linux/unix on board with own solutions
> and than they're
> packed into the box
> with cute web interface.
> Of course I can be wrong...
>=20
> Best regards,
>=20
> Shamrock
>=20
> 2008/11/29 David Roseman <david_5073@yahoo.com>
>=20
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Mon, 11/24/08, Marcello Barreto
> <marcello@linconet.com.br> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Marcello Barreto
> <marcello@linconet.com.br>
> > > Subject: PF + ALTQ - Bandwidth per customer
> > > To: freebsd-pf@freebsd.org,
> freebsd-isp@freebsd.org
> > > Date: Monday, November 24, 2008, 4:04 PM
> > > Hello Folks,
> > >       I believe you have heard this several
> times, but I'm
> > > new to FreeBSD and i'm trying to change my
> bandwidth
> > > control from Linux (iptables + TC + iproute) to
> Freebsd (PF
> > > + ALTQ).
> > >       I read about PF and I was very interested
> on it, but I
> > > want to limit the bandwidth (Download and Upload)
> from each
> > > customer behind a router (Obviously, FreeBSD with
> PF.)..
> > > There are several networks and a lot of
> customers, and with
> > > my rules, only what I got was each customer
> sharing the same
> > > queue...
> > >
> > >       There are my rules:
> > > altq on $external cbq queue {def_up, def_up300,
> def_up450,
> > > def_up600, def_up1000}
> > > altq on $internal cbq queue {def_down,
> def_down300,
> > > def_down450, def_down600, def_down1000}
> > >
> > > queue def_up bandwidth 10% cbq(default)
> > > queue def_down bandwidth 10% cbq(default)
> > >
> > > queue def_up300 bandwidth 128Kb cbq(red)
> > > queue def_up450 bandwidth 200Kb cbq(red)
> > > queue def_up600 bandwidth 300Kb cbq(red)
> > > queue def_up1000 bandwidth 500Kb cbq(red)
> > >
> > > queue def_down300 bandwidth 300Kb cbq(red)
> > > queue def_down450 bandwidth 450Kb cbq(red)
> > > queue def_down600 bandwidth 600Kb cbq(red)
> > > queue def_down1000 bandwidth 1024Kb cbq(red)
> > >
> > >
> > > pass in quick inet proto {tcp, udp} from
> <mylocalnet>
> > > to any queue def_down300
> > > pass out quick inet proto {tcp, udp} from
> > > <mylocalnet> to any queue def_up300
> > >
> >
> > You should consider a commercial product rather than
> relying on
> > old and somewhat unreliable technology. We've been
> able to squeeze a
> > lot more customers onto our network for a $3500.
> investment. It paid for
> > itself in 2 months. We have a dual-core 2.33Ghz system
> passing 95Mb/s
> > with 12000 rules in place and it runs at about 10%.
> The latest version is
> > truly amazing.
> >
> > http://www.etinc.com
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > David

=0A=0A=0A      



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