From owner-svn-src-all@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 6 16:30:45 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33392F14 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2013 16:30:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from mail-ve0-x232.google.com (mail-ve0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::232]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD6D52B6E for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2013 16:30:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ve0-f178.google.com with SMTP id db12so3865542veb.9 for ; Wed, 06 Nov 2013 08:30:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=wemm.org; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=FB4y07dpovne5BRmif6WarfbTDcSbmQio3rFgklMVzg=; b=39pb+K2jZjln7nsfyNpRBwdNDQN2N+c73c1Le2Fttc1iU853yGGjYBQ03SwI2wHIcf k2bJ6MidjZd3SOs288wp2YbUOMq9zXmPxWRb7jKUTDaMcDNMauC21F9nvhteSCELounk h/Jxh2kgmCmmaiGFak2zFdAsCEflBPB6xCIOo= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=FB4y07dpovne5BRmif6WarfbTDcSbmQio3rFgklMVzg=; b=AcSVw4+hT1lwdXAfhuAIs90e/JFKv6XZa8Drcc9l4K+Q78DfiLaTsAlw41Vgi6rm7l zNQ3kN46uzLugu7er9C/F20Kj96jt4Pcxt8MXIEfzDAr88850LqkZEnkeYbCGNGGIReM f39HJ97Jw+LheVl/ItaULeKJPRJXzzgYQgdG/smg9lGuQpKgZ2hX47cbUdiNktXQjK37 bWTsbab2Z4zIIStJ/APYybC0bu/4S2RGDyA10uMqY1pnB6Me1LmtRWIdWmCn7ge9ZH4r vVAVEQRp16y7VrKVLV3QP23XXxGnvjudwTghoJ6OmCICjrFF9Xb3U9GcyqNuVnvW9B1Y ldmg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlL0AQ5J7/iyh/K3QaH3XXhCFo/1TFfEFEQ7f2r8g1lReOE6UuCC2sY5SbPyQa6VLVZZjii MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.27.243 with SMTP id w19mr2514496vdg.3.1383755443975; Wed, 06 Nov 2013 08:30:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.167.74 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Nov 2013 08:30:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20131105192904.GG7577@FreeBSD.org> References: <201311051029.rA5ATmmM017799@svn.freebsd.org> <201311051156.09819.jhb@freebsd.org> <20131105192904.GG7577@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 08:30:43 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn commit: r257696 - in head: libexec/rbootd share/man/man9 sys/compat/svr4 sys/net sys/sys From: Peter Wemm To: Gleb Smirnoff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: "svn-src-head@freebsd.org" , svn-src-all , "src-committers@freebsd.org" , John Baldwin X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2013 16:30:45 -0000 On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > On Tue, Nov 05, 2013 at 11:56:09AM -0500, John Baldwin wrote: > J> On Tuesday, November 05, 2013 5:29:48 am Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > J> > Author: glebius > J> > Date: Tue Nov 5 10:29:47 2013 > J> > New Revision: 257696 > J> > URL: http://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/257696 > J> > > J> > Log: > J> > Drop support for historic ioctls and also undefine them, so that > code > J> > that checks their presence via ifdef, won't use them. > J> > J> Most of these are COMPAT_43, but one appears to be a 9.x ioctl? If > that's the > J> case it's implementation should probably stick around under appropriate > J> COMPAT_FREEBSD macros. It looks like it goes all the way back to > 4.4BSD, > J> so at least COMPAT_FREEBSD4 and later should define the implementation > to > J> preserve ABI compat for old binaries. > > Why should we support such broken configurations as running new kernel and > ancient core base system utilities? The efforts to keep this are much more > expensive, then yields. > > Why? because up until now you could run a FreeBSD4 jail on a modern system and reasonably expect it to work. No, we don't really "support" system level tools, but examining network state is widely used. No, one doesn't run ifconfig to set interface configs in jails, but there's a lot of scripts to read the configuration. > The only reason I see is to keep compat for the previous major version, > since > we guarantee only consequtive upgrades to a next major. If something goes > wrong during upgrade a sysadmin can use old tools with new kernel. I agree > on > that, and when changing SIOCAIFADDR two years ago, I provided > compatibility. > > But why the hell should we support an insane who will try to run > ifconfig(8) > from FreeBSD 4 on FreeBSD 11? Not speaking about this tool from 4.4BSD, > LOL :) > This is not what COMPAT_FREEBSD4 meant to be. > Insane? Perhaps, but it's keeping FreeBSD alive in a fairly large company I know of. We'll have to locally revert this change, most likely, and spend time supporting it ourselves instead of doing other potentially more useful things to help FreeBSD in general. -- Peter Wemm - peter@wemm.org; peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; KI6FJV