Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 08:20:57 -0600 From: Joe Warner <jswarner@uswest.net> To: Rick Hamell <hamellr@heorot.1nova.com> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -newbies Message-ID: <39E86BC9.4FA97AC1@uswest.net> References: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0010121810190.23543-100000@heorot.1nova.com>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
I happen to agree with most of the points made here by Rick and David. Rick, do you think that all technical questions should be forbidden from this list? IMHO, I think a logical approach would be to allow certain questions, depending on their scope. For example, someone proclaims they are new to FreeBSD and wants to know how to list the contents of a directory. A simple response would instruct them to use the "ls" command and also suggest they take a look at "man ls". I don't think there would be any risk of someone trashing their system with the "ls" command. All other questions, of a higher technical scope, could be politely directed to questions. Would this type of approach be too difficult to manage? I have taken this approach in the past. If someone asks a simple question and I'm 100% sure of the answer and am positive that my response won't cause the person to inflict damage to their system, I answer their question and also tell them where they can find more information. If the question is something like, how to configure a firewall or DNS, I kindly direct them to -questions and may include references to related publications and/or other resources. Even though the thread (re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) that I started on -newbies may have been appropriate, the length of this thread became irritating for some and as a result, efforts were made to create a separate list for this topic. BTW - I plan to withhold future information I receive, re: this subject and only post info that is a lot more substantial. Maybe it would help if Sue's "FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit" was posted more often? Maybe regular subscribers to this list, such as myself, could take a more active role in moderating it? Maybe there is a valid need for a name change for this list? Maybe all of the above? It sounds like, to me, that moderating this list has become a tough job and maybe, if a consensus was reached among the current moderators and regular subscribers, as to the content, there could be a team effort to make things better for everyone? Joe Rick Hamell wrote: > > > My major problem is that the questions that are being asked in > > > newbies, are not newbie questions! Asking about setting up a pccard, or > > > NATD, or DNS, or firewall filters are not in my mind newbie-type > > > questions. > > > > What exactly are appropriate questions? There will always be someone on > > any list who won't follow the rules, but what about the rest of us? > > From the -Newbies First Aid Kit, our "FAQ" so to speak: > > FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions > about installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help > requests are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions. > > FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer > how-to question. It is a discussion forum for newbies. > > That is the rules of FreeBSD-newbies... pretty simple. Those are > the rules it was allowed to come into creation under. Those rules are NOT > being followed today, nor have they been followed for quite some time. > > > The intricacies of NAT or DNS certainly don't belong here. But what > > about installation issues (if you can't get it installed, odds are > > you're a newbie)? What programs to use (tcsh or bash)? Etc. If some > > questions are allowed but others are not, then there should be some sort > > of guidelines as to what is okay. > > Simple... NO technical questions are allowed at all. What programs > to use would be IMHO, on-topic and appropriate. > > > I'm not trying to be belligerant. I fully understand your points. But I > > think -newbies should be more than just "I did something cool with > > FreeBSD last night." We are mere beginners with FreeBSD. That's why > > we're called newbies. At least give us a chance to learn to walk before > > demanding we run with the big boys. > > Yes, we were all beginners. FreeBSD-questions has been very > tolerant over the years to newbies. No matter how basic your question is, > if it's worded politely, and you seem to have done basic research, it gets > answered. In fact, from what I see... some of the more advanced questions > are more likely to not be answered! See the four postings regarding PCMCIA > Cards installations/configuration. > > > > But when was the last time such a question came across? In the > > > last year, I believe I've only seen one, maybe two posts that I think are > > > ontopic for -newbies. > > > > Huh? Are you serious! I recall discussions on the merits and > > disadvantages of various window managers, tales of triumph and woe, > > talks on the documentation situation as it applies to newbies, and of > > course the recent magazine discussion. All of these were appropriate > > because they were discussed by *newbies* from a *newbie* perspective. > > Geez, if we can't even talk about where to find documentation written > > for newbies, then go ahead and nuke the list because it's pretty > > useless... > > Ok, I will freely admit there that I mis-spoke there, though some > of those topics were cross-posted off into -chat or -questions, right > where they were both on topic. > I'm trying to bring this to people's attention because a large > amount of questions are getting asked in Newbies, and from I can see never > get answered. I do not believe that is giving a FreeBSD a very good > reputation. We talk about needing to expand, but by having people not > realize what -newbies really is for, they're missing a lot more that they > have the right to get, if they posted to the correct place. > I personally would be willing to see -newbies changed to something > like -newbie_issues.. (not -newbie-chat... -chat already serves that > purpose, as most -newbie chat issues again, IMHO are not limited to the > newbie.) If I had the time I would volunteer to take over from Sue Blake > the position of defacto Moderator of -newbies. She did a wonderful job in > the begining, but I can not remeber the last non-Newbies First Aid Kit > post she's made. Either she also is to busy, no longer feels -newbies is > needed by herself or in general, or...? Please Sue if you do read this, I > respect you and the pain you went through to get this group created, I > simply believe your orginal vision needs a swift kick to get it back where > it belongs. > Ultimatily, I guess it belongs in postmaster@freebsd.org's hands > to make this choice. Does -newbies get a name change, stay the way it is, > or get kicked out the door? > > Rick > > ******************************************************************* > Rick's FreeBSD Web page http://heorot.1nova.com/freebsd > Ace Logan's Hardware Guide http://www.shatteredcrystal.net/hardware > ***FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! http://www.freebsd.org > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- FreeBSD = The Power to Serve ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?39E86BC9.4FA97AC1>